It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 28:20

" Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. " Amen.

This is part of the great commission that the Apostles were sent out and commanded to make disciples out of all the nations, and notice the second part that I put. We are to observe ( do ) all that He commanded.

List of things He told us to do.......

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind
Love your neighbor
Love your enemies
baptism
confession
repentance
produce good fruit ( works )
do not repay evil for evil
and the list go's on....................

1. He said make disciples. You must be born again to be a true disciple (thus your already saved), people who are not true disciples. who do not really have faith walk away, we see this with Judas and those who left in John 6.
2. he did not tell them to tell them they HAVE TO DO THOSE THINGS. He said TEACH them to observe those things.

Saying they have to puts them under law not grace. and makes the gift of eternal life not a gift, but a reward for good works.

why do you people think you can earn a gift? I know I know. Your not saying you are doing this, But you are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can see why you do not understand the whole plan of salvation. You have an incorrect concept of why God even created Adam. Adam was NOT created perfect. He was not created either immortal or mortal. Adam was created to have a relationship with God and in that relationship was to perfect himself as a human being, becoming the Likeness of God;s Image.

Wow, are you a mormon? ir is this where momonism gets this crap?

So God creates things which are not perfect? Tell me, Why did God tell us (and adam) he was alive (by stating that if he ate, he would die)?

It is you who do not understand, no wonder your doctrines are so out there.

Yes adam was created to have a relationship with God. But not to do as you say, God created adam because God wanted to serve adam, to provide all his needs, Just like he wants to do with us.

You do not even know who God is that is quite evident.

He lost that relationship which is why the story of Adam sinks the false theory of OSAS. We as believers are in the precise, exact same relationship with Christ/God. You are using the wrong terminology. Adam lost eternal life, and so will we if we do not remain faithful to Christ and work with HIm to perfect ourselves into His Likness.

lol. Further proof you do not understand the gospel or God.

1. We are not in the same relationship. We still have the flesh nature, Adam did nto have one UNTIL he sinned, Adam did not know evil don;t you remember? let alone have evil thoughts which fought with his spiritual nature.
2. Adam does not negate OSAS, because adam DID NOT NEED SAVED.. I may be saved by the blood. But I still have a human nature, Thus even as a child of God. I STILL NEED SAVED 24/7. You evidently think there are times in your life you do not need saved, Which makes you a dangerous person.

You are in the very same position as Adam was, in a relationship with God. The difference is that we are born mortal with the proclivity to sin easily, which Adam did not possess. Otherwise all things are equal. Satan is still around seeking who he can devour.

No. All things were not equal.

Adam did not need to be saved, We still do. Its apples and oranges.

Adams story was all about the fall of MANKIND. not the perfection of adam and losing salvation. One must NEED saved before he can lose it

no, he lost eternal life. He lost what you are trying to say that a beleiver is guarnateed and it was not ever guaranteed from the beginning.

Adam had life. Not eternal life. this is a misnomer and false precept.

The mere fact we are told we HAVE eternal life. means we will as Jesus said in john 6. Never hunger, thirst, die, live forever, HAVE eternal life, and be risen by him, (vs delivered to him) but thats right, you do not even believe this, you have twisted this gospel truth into a pagan ritual of eucharistic sacrifice.

Because He fell, lost life for all men, Christ needed first to save the world from death and sin so that God could again offer man union with Him, and if man works faithfully with God, will attain eternal life which was the original purpose of God creating man, and why Christ needed to save the world from the fall, namely death and the subsequent sin and from Satan as well.

Every human being is in Christ. Christ assumed our human nature, called the Incarnation, and by His resurrection raised our human natures to life. It is speaking of a physical eternal existence here. There is no man living that is in Adam any longer. It is why a believer is being saved through His life because He can now call all men to repentance and those that believe, remain faithful will attain eternal life.

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you still do not get it.

When he sinned, Mankind DIED! Spiritual death means separation from God. (God can not relate with sin) Sin had to be paid for. Christ paid that sin debt. And because he PAID THE PRICE IN FULL. We can be offered to be MADE ALIVE in him/. And have that relationship restored.

Your still trying to restore yourself. You do not realise how spiritually dead you are. or you would see the truth of the cross. and how it and ONLY it can save you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Proof?
Is it not strange how Cassian thinks he can just pontificate? If wants to disgust Adam, he needs to prove things from scripture.

He lost that relationship which is why the story of Adam sinks the false theory of OSAS. We as believers are in the precise, exact same relationship with Christ/God.

Nonsense, more Sola Cassiana.
And I can't see any reason why you should be included in the "we" who are saved. For you don't believe you are saved.

Before the fall Adam was not saved; He never had sinned.
Adam did not have the promises that sinners have regarding salvation. There is no hint that He had the indwelling Holy Spirit, either.

And Cassian just runs on, claiming this & that. As if anyone should believe just for him saying it.

What a tragedy for eternal life to be free just for trusting the SAvior. But then someone just can't believe Christ is the Savior, but thinks He should be demoted to "chance-giver."

Now for those of you who trust the Savior:

He who began a good work in you will complete it.

People like cassion do not believe God has the power to continue a good work in his children. The children must work themselves. or they will get kicked out of Gods family.

Imagine of human parents treated their children like they claim God treats us? (sadly I think some do)

is this the God of love he claims to be? They have bought hook line and sinker into satans lie.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Atwood what are you bound by? The cross can set you free, if you would only believe.

lol. Atwood and people like him have been freed.

it is those who do not believe in the work of God to coninue his work till the end, and sustain us, never depart us, never let us go. who have not been freed, they are still under bondage.

You should be speaking to people like Ken, Newbirth, cassion and steven, they are the ones still in bondage.

 

[newbirth]

Re: How Many R Deluded into Thinking that Mat 25 is About Salvation?

The words "save" and salvation do not occur in Matthew 25. The topic is judgment, not salvation. this is the famous Sheep & Goat Gentile judgment before the Millennium, where the issue is how they treated Christ's brethren.

The topic is not salvation.

Salvation is about being delivered from being a sinner and having eternal life as a free gift.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

Good works are evidence of salvation, however.

Eph 2

And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Good works are not evidence of salvation ...anyone can do good works...According to the scripture posted we are ,"created in Christ Jesus for good works," not just any good works but.." which God afore prepared that we should walk in them" That speaks of obedience. Christ prepared work for his people. Obey him.
Matthew 7:18-20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Evidence of salvation is obedience....disobedience is sin the wages of sin is death

 

[newbirth]

People like cassion do not believe God has the power to continue a good work in his children. The children must work themselves. or they will get kicked out of Gods family.

Imagine of human parents treated their children like they claim God treats us? (sadly I think some do)

is this the God of love he claims to be? They have bought hook line and sinker into satans lie.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[newbirth]

lol. Atwood and people like him have been freed.

it is those who do not believe in the work of God to coninue his work till the end, and sustain us, never depart us, never let us go. who have not been freed, they are still under bondage.

You should be speaking to people like Ken, Newbirth, cassion and steven, they are the ones still in bondage.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to[SUP][a][/SUP] his own glory and excellence,[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

 

[Skinski7]

1. He said make disciples. You must be born again to be a true disciple (thus your already saved), people who are not true disciples. who do not really have faith walk away, we see this with Judas and those who left in John 6.
2. he did not tell them to tell them they HAVE TO DO THOSE THINGS. He said TEACH them to observe those things.

Saying they have to puts them under law not grace. and makes the gift of eternal life not a gift, but a reward for good works.

why do you people think you can earn a gift? I know I know. Your not saying you are doing this, But you are.

Really?

Jesus commanding people to do something puts people under law? Obeying Jesus is equivalent to earning a gift?

I really do not understand people like you. I really do not understand how your mind works. Are you being purposefully obtuse or is your mind really that mixed up?

Was it mandatory that Noah build an ark? Was a mandatory requirement of Noah having to build an ark mean that he was earning a free gift? Did building the ark put Noah under the law?



I also don't understand why people keep debating all this stuff in threads like this when there are those who throw reason out the window. I see a whole lot of nonsense here.

The truth is simple. Do what Jesus said. Allow oneself to be convicted in the heart of wrongdoing and forsake that wrong doing. In forsaking wrongdoing yield to God and walk faithfully in the leading and power of God. That's it. Simple.

Do that and live. God offers His grace freely. God offers us salvation freely. It's like a free meal but we still have to eat it for it to be beneficial. We can receive a free gift in vain if we refuse to put it to use.

We are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves, it is a gift of God so no man may boast. Thus salvation is found in abiding in the power and leading of God faithfully as opposed to doing anything apart from that which would be works. "Not of works" does not mean "do nothing" it simply means "not of anything apart from the grace of God." The Galatians were erring in seeing the salvation of the New Covenant as connected to "Mosaic Law Keeping" as opposed to "Walking by the Spirit" and that is what Paul corrected them on. Our salvation is a result of abiding in the Spirit of God which energises us as opposed to "keeping rules and regulations apart from the Spirit." That is why the Bible makes statements like "love fulfills the law" as opposed to "cancelling the law." Is that really hard to understand?

How on earth can people conclude that love fulfilling the law and Eph 2:8-9 mean we don't "have to do anything"? That is pure unreasonable nonsense.

Of course we have to do something. We have to obey God. We are to obey God out of a pure heart having come clean through repentance.

 

[apostolic862004]

Apostolic, what I believe is the word of God. When I see a post that just goes on without proving from the Bible, it is generally not worth an answer, as it goes nowhere.

I posted scripture. Believe God's Word. I am not a prophet, what I generate is not God's Word.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.

Not: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & thou shalt have a chance at salvation.

LOL! Spoken like a person who truly cannot defend their statements! You didn't even post my whole quote. You did to my quote exactly the same thing you have been doing to the bible: you took the part that you wanted to address, and left out the part that proves your in false doctrine.

 

[newbirth]

1. He said make disciples. You must be born again to be a true disciple (thus your already saved), people who are not true disciples. who do not really have faith walk away, we see this with Judas and those who left in John 6.

If that were so he would not ask the twelve if they would go away too...
[SUP]66 [/SUP]From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

2. he did not tell them to tell them they HAVE TO DO THOSE THINGS. He said TEACH them to observe those things.

Deuteronomy 5:32
Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.Maybe you can tell us what he means to observe

Saying they have to puts them under law not grace. and makes the gift of eternal life not a gift, but a reward for good works.

saying they have to means they have to obey...
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

why do you people think you can earn a gift? I know I know. Your not saying you are doing this, But you are.

You are the one who is saying it...and thus teaching men to disobey God...

Titus 2:11-13
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

 

[apostolic862004]

Your not getting the point. Yes Adam was on his way to heaven (although he prety much had heaven on earth so to speak)

But adam was that way by his works. he earned the right to get to heaven, because he was perfect.

Non of us has ever been in his position, so you can not compare him to us, it is like comparing apples and oranges, they do not mix.

Adam did not fall away as in lose his salvation. In order for this to happen, he would have NEEDED saved in the first place. He did not need saved.

Try another example which fits. Adam does not fit.

In Adam ALL DIE

In CHRIST ALL shall be made alive.

I am in Christ, not in Adam.

Adam was in himself BEFORE he sinned (perfect) after he sinned, He had to be in Christ to get to heaven.

The reason you are saying that Adam doesn't count before the fall is because you know that it proves you wrong. So if you admit that he was on his way to heaven, and then was on his way to hell, then was on his way to heaven again, you must admit that you can "fall, walk away from, lose, leave" (or whatever you want to call it) from salvation. That is why you are so adamant about not comparing him. And to prove your point you made a statement that is so blatantly false that even people who don't know much about the bible know that it's false:

But adam was that way by his works. he earned the right to get to heaven, because he was perfect.

Adam was not perfect because of his works, he was CREATED perfect! He did perfect works because he was created that way! Not the other way around.

Let me say this, if we make it to heaven, it is SALVATION because we were on our way to hell and we were SAVED from it. Adam before the fall did not need to be saved because he was already on his way to heaven. But either way, the result is the same, HEAVEN. So that is what I am referring to when I say Adam's salvation. I can use a different word or phrase but you know what I mean. Adam was on his way to heaven simply because God created him to be there with him. He created us to be there with him. It was not God's intention for Adam to say on the earth. The earth was the "proving" ground for Adam just like it is for us. But it was always God's plan for us to live with him in heaven and that includes Adam. So Adam and Eve were both on their way to heaven. When they were tempted, they failed the test, sinned, and were now on their way to hell. So since we don't want to call it "salvation" before the sin, lets say they fell from "going to heaven." So they "fell from going to heaven." So if they were PERFECT, and they "fell from going to heaven," we who are IMPERFECT can "fall from going to heaven" as well. This is what the bible teaches. If that is not true, then most of the epistles have no purpose. The only thing that needed to be written after Christ died was how to be saved and you either do it or you dont but if you do it, then there is no need for any further admonition because you cant lose it once you have it!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

and who is those who obey him?

according to John. those who are BORN OF GOD.

not those hoping to be born of God because they are working for it (like say you??)

according to paul, those who have been saved by grace through faith, not of works. created for good works)

and not those who are trying to be saved, keep saved, or not lose salvation by their works.

you can post scripture which contradicts other scripture till your blue in the face. it will not help your cause.

You can lie that I deny works, and teach I can sin and do whatever I want forever, and it will not make you right, or help your cause

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[SUP]3 [/SUP]His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to[SUP][a][/SUP] his own glory and excellence,[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

yep, Atwood and I have this in our hearts, and our eternal being. ( a thing called eternal life, and the assurance of christ)

when are you going to accept this into your life. and stop thinking you can ever mess up and lose it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Titus 2:11-13
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

ah yes, titus.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done (all the works newbirth keeps trying to shove down my throat) But BY HIS MERCY HE SAVED USby the washing and renewal of the HS.

when are you going to get saved newbirth? then you can take those passages and actually not only DO THEM. but praise God for it;.. while at the same time not be so engrossed in fear everytime you fail..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL! Spoken like a person who truly cannot defend their statements! You didn't even post my whole quote. You did to my quote exactly the same thing you have been doing to the bible: you took the part that you wanted to address, and left out the part that proves your in false doctrine.

dude, I am not going to post a whole quote when I get sick of discussing the same things over, Lets get one thing straight before we go to others.

So you think adam needed saved before he sinned?

thats enough to ignore EVERYTHING you say, let alone respond to bits and pieces.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The reason you are saying that Adam doesn't count before the fall is because you know that it proves you wrong.

1. Add hominem, not based on fact. but arrogant conjecture.
2. No I do not know it proves me wrong, I know what Adams position in Christ was before he sinned, He did not NEED SAVED, thus your whole premise is based on false pretense.
3. In fact it is you who uses this because you know it is all you have..

So if you admit that he was on his way to heaven, and then was on his way to hell, then was on his way to heaven again, you must admit that you can "fall, walk away from, lose, leave" (or whatever you want to call it) from salvation. That is why you are so adamant about not comparing him. And to prove your point you made a statement that is so blatantly false that even people who don't know much about the bible know that it's false:

Adam was not perfect because of his works, he was CREATED perfect! He did perfect works because he was created that way! Not the other way around.

Let me say this, if we make it to heaven, it is SALVATION because we were on our way to hell and we were SAVED from it. Adam before the fall did not need to be saved because he was already on his way to heaven. But either way, the result is the same, HEAVEN. So that is what I am referring to when I say Adam's salvation. I can use a different word or phrase but you know what I mean. Adam was on his way to heaven simply because God created him to be there with him. He created us to be there with him. It was not God's intention for Adam to say on the earth. The earth was the "proving" ground for Adam just like it is for us. But it was always God's plan for us to live with him in heaven and that includes Adam. So Adam and Eve were both on their way to heaven. When they were tempted, they failed the test, sinned, and were now on their way to hell. So since we don't want to call it "salvation" before the sin, lets say they fell from "going to heaven." So they "fell from going to heaven." So if they were PERFECT, and they "fell from going to heaven," we who are IMPERFECT can "fall from going to heaven" as well. This is what the bible teaches. If that is not true, then most of the epistles have no purpose. The only thing that needed to be written after Christ died was how to be saved and you either do it or you dont but if you do it, then there is no need for any further admonition because you cant lose it once you have it!

Adam was perfect according to his works. He had never broken the law of God. thus according to the law of God, He was NOT CURSED.

You my friend, were born cursed. Are cursed because of your own sin. Will still be cursed the day you die. Unless you have been redeemed by the blood of Christ.

 

[apostolic862004]

1. Add hominem, not based on fact. but arrogant conjecture.
2. No I do not know it proves me wrong, I know what Adams position in Christ was before he sinned, He did not NEED SAVED, thus your whole premise is based on false pretense.
3. In fact it is you who uses this because you know it is all you have..



Adam was perfect according to his works. He had never broken the law of God. thus according to the law of God, He was NOT CURSED.

You my friend, were born cursed. Are cursed because of your own sin. Will still be cursed the day you die. Unless you have been redeemed by the blood of Christ.

I know that Adam did not need saved before the fall. I say that in my post so either you didn't read it, or you are ignoring it intentionally. Let me say it again, ADAM DID NOT NEED TO BE SAVED BEFORE HE SINNED. HOWEVER ADAM WAS STILL GOING TO GO TO HEAVEN!

As for your statement about him being perfect according to his works, you are wrong. Adam was perfect BEFORE THERE EVER WAS A LAW! Adam was perfect before God even gave him the commandment not to eat of the tree. So you are wrong. Adam was not perfect because of his works, Adam was perfect from the moment he became a living soul.

 

[apostolic862004]

dude, I am not going to post a whole quote when I get sick of discussing the same things over, Lets get one thing straight before we go to others.

So you think adam needed saved before he sinned?

thats enough to ignore EVERYTHING you say, let alone respond to bits and pieces.

You didn't even read my post! I said very clearly, ADAM DID NOT NEED TO BE SAVED BEFORE HE SINNED! What you are doing is trying to find a reason not to respond to what I said.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You didn't even read my post! I said very clearly, ADAM DID NOT NEED TO BE SAVED BEFORE HE SINNED! What you are doing is trying to find a reason not to respond to what I said.

Then you just answered your own question.

if adam did not need to be saved before he sinned, you can not relate to him.

WE STILL NEED TO BE SAVED, AND WILL UNTIL THE DAY WE DIE.

I still need to be saved right this very moment, (even though I am saved) if Gods saving work would stop in my life, I would be condemned. period. This can not be said of adam before the fall. God did not have to sustain him by grace.

Adam did not need grace, Grace means undeserved merit. Adam deserved everything he got up until the time he sinned, Then EVERYTHING he got from God was by Grace.

there was no grace before the fall, it was not needed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I know that Adam did not need saved before the fall. I say that in my post so either you didn't read it, or you are ignoring it intentionally. Let me say it again, ADAM DID NOT NEED TO BE SAVED BEFORE HE SINNED. HOWEVER ADAM WAS STILL GOING TO GO TO HEAVEN!

As for your statement about him being perfect according to his works, you are wrong. Adam was perfect BEFORE THERE EVER WAS A LAW! Adam was perfect before God even gave him the commandment not to eat of the tree. So you are wrong. Adam was not perfect because of his works, Adam was perfect from the moment he became a living soul.

lol..

1. You do not know what works are
2. You do not understand what grace is.

1. Works are good deeds, moral acts of faith. or bad deeds (which would include good deeds according to the law. but done in a selfish self centered basis)
2. Grace is undeserved merit. Adam did not need grace, He was not under grace, and did not need to be saved by grace, thus he can not be compaired to those of us who have to be saved by Grace, period.

finally. If we are saved by Grace,, And have to be sustained by grace. Then it can NEVER BE OF WORKS (either to keep it, or gain it) because then it would stop being grace, and start being works.

as paul said, if it is of grace, it is no longer work, otherwise,. GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.

if grace can be lost, IT IS NOT GRACE, PERIOD!