Vot der dumboozle!
There was no Church until Acts 2. You are claiming that Abraham and David were not loved by the Lord. As of Mat 16 the Church was future. (I will build).
The world is the world, for crying outloud. All men.
It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
- Thread starter Atwood
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Vot der dumboozle!
There was no Church until Acts 2. You are claiming that Abraham and David were not loved by the Lord. As of Mat 16 the Church was future. (I will build).
The world is the world, for crying outloud. All men.
Not all for whom Christ died.
God so loved the world [all men] that He gave His only son that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES . . . eternal life. Man must believe to be incorporated into Christ.
They believe that future sins are forgiven when you are born again that is the basis of ES I have never gotten any response to these two verses. But I guess they will come up with some antecedent or whatever
- Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
You judge by appearance that's OK .....My response proves I don't deny the power of God because I believe God is all powerful I am asking you if you deny he gave you power to become a Son of God. And this is why I asked you.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
God gave you power to do something what are you doing with it. Waiting for him to do it for you.
Or are you going to find a verb in the Greek to establish your own doctrine.
answer the question yes or no do you deny God gave you power to become a Son of God.
New Birth, to refute Eternal security you need verses that speak about having something called salvation and then losing it. Neither of your verses says that.
It is a logical fallacy to negate an antecedent.
If taking a bus gets you to the ball park,
that doesn't prove you can't get there any way but by bus.
You might take a taxi.
If God forgave past sins, that proves nothing positive or negative about future sins.
If the New York Yankees won the last World Series, that proves nothing about the next one.
Of course believers in eternal security affirm that God did propitiation for past sins.
Now if he did not also do propitiation for future sins, you are out of luck; because you are going to be sinning. And God doesn't just overlook sin. He punishes the sinner for sins. But the Lord jesus was our substitute and took our punishment for us on the cross. He is not going to the cross again; so either your sins were paid for on the cross, or they will not be paid for by anyone but yourself in the Lake of Fire.
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
The Lord takes care of us, but he also disciplines us. The discipline can be quite harsh, if we prove to be stubborn. This will always be true.
If I tell you take a bus to the park and you take a taxi what does it prove
- Soteriological (salvation) approach.
- Since all sins were judged at the Cross, sins cannot undo our salvation
It illustrates the fallacy called denying an antecedent.
If it is true that taking a bus gets you to a park,
it is a fallacy to conclude that if you don't take a bus you won't get to the park.
This is true for whosoever believes in the Lord Jesus as Savior.
If you eat yeast and drink shoe polish,
you will rise and shine.
Yes indeed; a believer may be delivered to satan for the destruction of the body that the spirit may be saved. The Father knows how to raise his children.
If the Christian does not ask for forgiveness, he will not get it. Again see 1 Jn 1:7,9.
Romans asks the rhetorical question in Rom 8:
" What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifies; who is he that condemns? "
In answer to that question, should we make a list of certain persons who have posted on this thread? But hopefully some of them have had a change of mind on this (= repentance).
atw
I have no problem h that passage, but the truth still remains:
Those Christ died for never had sin charged to them 2 Cor 5:19 !
I have no problem h that passage, but the truth still remains:
Those Christ died for never had sin charged to them 2 Cor 5:19 !
Entering his courts with thanksgiving and praise, anhd have now entered, Thank you Jesus, loving every minute of it
And resting in Father through Jesus. telling others as I go in this world as I am led to do and say.
Can't explain this unfathomable love, one can only receive it, and is available to all from Father through Son. Just ask in earnestness and do not give up finding it. It can take awhile or not. Seek Mercy God's through Son and receive and be,
Love is God's way and God's type is 1 Cor 13:4-13, that God desires for us all to have. But our natures in the flesh can't do that and is why we need to be born again in Spirit and truth to be able to do that type of love, where we take no credit for it
God is still the leader and knows all, and will separate the sheep from the goats
Tell me, those who deny eternal security, what really leads you to this denial? Is it the unwillingness to admit your own depravity and throw yourself on God's mercy and grace? Are you trying to establish your own righteousness by obedience to commandments? Consider Rom 10:
"For being ignorant of God’s righteousness and
seeking to establish their own,
they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes."
"And he spake also this parable to certain who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and set all others at nought: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get. But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes to heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God, be merciful to me a sinner."
Trusting yourself as your "Savior" is a refusal to trust the Lord Jesus as your savior.
"For being ignorant of God’s righteousness and
seeking to establish their own,
they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes."
"And he spake also this parable to certain who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and set all others at nought: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get. But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes to heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God, be merciful to me a sinner."
Trusting yourself as your "Savior" is a refusal to trust the Lord Jesus as your savior.
Only God can, and if one gives up completely on self as in trying to do what God has done already for you through Christ, one can't, and never will being on what i call a roller coaster up and own, up and down, up and down, never being satisfied as is what our nature in flesh is, never satisfied
Look at the day of provocation, with all those miracles from God to them through Moses, and they still whimed and complained, never exercising Faith. Saying they believed and then went about their own way as many are doing to this very day
Saying out of one side of their mouth yes we are forgiven. Then comes out no we need more if we sin. A lie
yes we are eternally secure by God, but maybe not, doubt has entered and one is beset?
Either God is faithful or not? Is God faithful?
I do believe that future sins are forgiven if we confess them.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Don't you?
Please you tell us, I know this:
[h=3]1 John 2[/h]New International Version (NIV)
2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
If one casts aside to beleive, then one had never come to full term, the cocoon they were in to become that new person was destroyed and they never were transferred from a worm to a butterfly. On their way yes, not there yet, and is why god has said to stand in the Faith, and therefore stand
How many sins did Christ go to the cross for? All or just a few?
How many are left for you?
Is there any forgiveness ever without the shedding of blood in the First or the second Testaments?
Any and every time you ask God for more forgiveness, is God going to come down and die again on a cross and shed his blood some more, as if God's sacrifice for you was not enough?
peaceful
That's not scriptural ! Col 2:13-14
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
That's not scriptural ! Col 2:13-14
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
It always helps to use a strawman. You will NOT find a passage that says one lost salvation, because no one has salvation until the end when eternal life is granted. It is being held as an inheritance.
However, our attaining eternal life is all based on one's faith. If we lose faith then we also shall not inherit eternal life.
After all these posts you still have not found a text that makes man "saved" regarding eternal life upon one's initial faith.
Your citations (3) don't address OSAS. The first addresses the promise that is awaiting for you, IF you are faithful.
The other two have the condition of continuous action, present tense in order to attain eternal life.