It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
- Thread starter Atwood
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Great Question, Dead,
There must be many who think of salvation as something awarded after a favorable judgment of their works, instead of a transformation begun when one trusts Christ now (now is the day of salvation, present time) and continues into eternity with eternal life.
Salvation comes in 3 tenses: 1) We were saved / We have been saved, 2) we are being saved, and 3) we shall be saved.
Romans 5 has all 3. Quote of Rom 5 with time words inserted:
Past: For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. But God commends his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Present: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
Past: For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more,
Present: being reconciled,
Future: we shall be saved by his life; and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ
Present: through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
We receive a new birth when we trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. If any man is in Christ Jesus, the old things have passed away, behold all has become new -- 2 Cor 5. But the process continues in the present. The Lord Jesus keeps us saved.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again [past] unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time [future].
There must be many who think of salvation as something awarded after a favorable judgment of their works, instead of a transformation begun when one trusts Christ now (now is the day of salvation, present time) and continues into eternity with eternal life.
Salvation comes in 3 tenses: 1) We were saved / We have been saved, 2) we are being saved, and 3) we shall be saved.
Romans 5 has all 3. Quote of Rom 5 with time words inserted:
Past: For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. But God commends his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Present: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
Past: For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more,
Present: being reconciled,
Future: we shall be saved by his life; and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ
Present: through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
We receive a new birth when we trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. If any man is in Christ Jesus, the old things have passed away, behold all has become new -- 2 Cor 5. But the process continues in the present. The Lord Jesus keeps us saved.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again [past] unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time [future].
Just wanted to say 1 thing....
I usually stay from threads like this because the very title and OP of them can cause more division and arrogance within the body than any truth it attempts to profess.
I can't help but wonder how many Christians would approach someone in church, especially one who professes to be a brother/sister in Christ and tell them to their face something like,
"What you believe is satanic heresy."
I would hope very few. And if there are, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with them.
In my opinion, statements and attitudes like this are found primarily in forums like this where there is no accountability to others for our words. I think it would interesting to see what would happen if folks took some of their more harsh statements and let their pastor/leader/mentor read them?
It's a good thing to debate and to disagree. But I think a measure of grace and humility should be found when talking to our fellow brothers and sisters.
p.s. Atwood, I'm not picking on you specifically here. There are lots of posts out there that do this.
I usually stay from threads like this because the very title and OP of them can cause more division and arrogance within the body than any truth it attempts to profess.
I can't help but wonder how many Christians would approach someone in church, especially one who professes to be a brother/sister in Christ and tell them to their face something like,
"What you believe is satanic heresy."
I would hope very few. And if there are, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with them.
In my opinion, statements and attitudes like this are found primarily in forums like this where there is no accountability to others for our words. I think it would interesting to see what would happen if folks took some of their more harsh statements and let their pastor/leader/mentor read them?
It's a good thing to debate and to disagree. But I think a measure of grace and humility should be found when talking to our fellow brothers and sisters.
p.s. Atwood, I'm not picking on you specifically here. There are lots of posts out there that do this.
Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
why would Jesus answer this man with commandments?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
why would Jesus answer this man with commandments?
T
You are all celebrities! See, 47 persons reading this thread! They're interested in what you have to say!
You are all famous!
Keep fighting the fight for Christ! Keep fighting your fellow Christians!
Divide the kingdom even more!!!
1 Corinthians 1:10-17
Matthew 12:25
Fight!
Lets chunk a few more bible verses and copy-and-pasted articles into this 100 mile long thread!!!
I would do it myself, but you are all already doing a terrific career at it!
Fight! Fight!
1 Corinthians 9:27
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Fight Fight Fight!!!
You are all famous!
Keep fighting the fight for Christ! Keep fighting your fellow Christians!
Divide the kingdom even more!!!
1 Corinthians 1:10-17
Matthew 12:25
Fight!
Lets chunk a few more bible verses and copy-and-pasted articles into this 100 mile long thread!!!
I would do it myself, but you are all already doing a terrific career at it!
Fight! Fight!
1 Corinthians 9:27
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Fight Fight Fight!!!
eternally_grateful,
fallacy of argument again. Or a strawman again.
We are NOT even speaking about what Christ did through His Incarnation, deaht and resurrection. This is the Gift of salvation He gave to all men, to the world. However, there was a purpose of why He saved the world from death and sin.
To be reunited with man in an eternal union of communion. It is this union of which this discusion is about. That union is NOT guaranteed to any man just on the basis of simple faith. That is ONLY a starting point. This is what Adam was doing, this is what man was created to do. God was testing and maturing Adam and He is doing the same for us as believers. Which is why OSAS is Satanic heresy to reverse the OP topic.
YOu are denying God's sovereign purpose in creating man and then Christ saving man from death and sin. or short version, from the fall.
YOu are right no man needs to do anything to get this gift, and he cannot lose it, Even beleivers were given this gift. We shall all be raised in the last day. Christ gave life to the world. Death was the end of man and the world.
this is your continuation of your strawman because you are actually not even on topic.
This is why I also explained to you much earlier that your terminology is confusing you. Salvation is what Christ did for every man. The attaining eternal life is what man's response is,(faith) works with God to attain eternal life.
First there is no such thing as sincere belief. This seems to be a crutch you are using, redefining words to help support a theory not found in scripture. The point is that man is free. Man can decided to revert back to his old ways. God cannot force man to stay. See the story of Adam again.
He did, but for everyone, including the world was reconciled back to God. But this makes it possible for you a believer in the 21st century to decide to join with HIm now and for eternity. But God does not force you to join with Him, He cannot force you to stay either. That is dependent of your free will. You are being influenced by HIm as much as you are being influenced by Satan, and which way you go, is all on you. That is why YOU will be judged, not God.
This is the direct opposite of the meaning of the parable. You are right that the first example are those who hear but immediately turned it away. However all of the rest are believers. They believed, it took root. That is a bonefied believer, a person who repented, who was baptised and is IN Christ. However, as the parable shows, other things became more important in life, the pleasures of the world, snuffed out their faith. They lost faith. That is precisely what most of the NT is teaching. Man cannot guarantee his faith.
fallacy of argument again. Or a strawman again.
We are NOT even speaking about what Christ did through His Incarnation, deaht and resurrection. This is the Gift of salvation He gave to all men, to the world. However, there was a purpose of why He saved the world from death and sin.
To be reunited with man in an eternal union of communion. It is this union of which this discusion is about. That union is NOT guaranteed to any man just on the basis of simple faith. That is ONLY a starting point. This is what Adam was doing, this is what man was created to do. God was testing and maturing Adam and He is doing the same for us as believers. Which is why OSAS is Satanic heresy to reverse the OP topic.
YOu are denying God's sovereign purpose in creating man and then Christ saving man from death and sin. or short version, from the fall.
YOu are right no man needs to do anything to get this gift, and he cannot lose it, Even beleivers were given this gift. We shall all be raised in the last day. Christ gave life to the world. Death was the end of man and the world.
this is your continuation of your strawman because you are actually not even on topic.
This is why I also explained to you much earlier that your terminology is confusing you. Salvation is what Christ did for every man. The attaining eternal life is what man's response is,(faith) works with God to attain eternal life.
First there is no such thing as sincere belief. This seems to be a crutch you are using, redefining words to help support a theory not found in scripture. The point is that man is free. Man can decided to revert back to his old ways. God cannot force man to stay. See the story of Adam again.
He did, but for everyone, including the world was reconciled back to God. But this makes it possible for you a believer in the 21st century to decide to join with HIm now and for eternity. But God does not force you to join with Him, He cannot force you to stay either. That is dependent of your free will. You are being influenced by HIm as much as you are being influenced by Satan, and which way you go, is all on you. That is why YOU will be judged, not God.
This is the direct opposite of the meaning of the parable. You are right that the first example are those who hear but immediately turned it away. However all of the rest are believers. They believed, it took root. That is a bonefied believer, a person who repented, who was baptised and is IN Christ. However, as the parable shows, other things became more important in life, the pleasures of the world, snuffed out their faith. They lost faith. That is precisely what most of the NT is teaching. Man cannot guarantee his faith.
Cassian, why do you go on and on, just up and saying things? Where is your scripture? Have you ever read the Bible through even once?
Your saying it proves nothing.
Baptism of the Spirit puts a man into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13); it should not be confused with regeneration, a distinct work of the Spirit. Regeneration is receiving eternal life.
Right now believers have eternal life:
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that you have [ἔχετε, present tense] eternal life, even to you who believe on the name of the Son of God.
I urge you to submit to the Word of God. Now is the day of salvation. Right now, trust Christ as your only & sufficient Savior.
"Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new."
"whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world"
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again [past] unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time [future].
For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Once a man is "in Christ," Christ never casts him out:
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."
Once the Holy Spirit enters a man at initial belief, He never leaves, though He may be grieved:
"And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption.
Your saying it proves nothing.
Baptism of the Spirit puts a man into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13); it should not be confused with regeneration, a distinct work of the Spirit. Regeneration is receiving eternal life.
Right now believers have eternal life:
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that you have [ἔχετε, present tense] eternal life, even to you who believe on the name of the Son of God.
I urge you to submit to the Word of God. Now is the day of salvation. Right now, trust Christ as your only & sufficient Savior.
"Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new."
"whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world"
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again [past] unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time [future].
For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Once a man is "in Christ," Christ never casts him out:
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."
Once the Holy Spirit enters a man at initial belief, He never leaves, though He may be grieved:
"And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption.
2
I am sorry those verses are all out of context, sir, you need to read those books completely and I do not agree with your bible study,m it does not match the bible in my opinion with all respect.
Eternal security is very nice. I am secure in my bible that says,
Follow me!
I will be secure who follows the word of God and reads and does it
When Jesus tells me from the mountian REMEMBER the Sabbath,
I will each week.
When David says in Psalms"Thy ten ommandments are eternal, o God!" I believe that too/
and when I read Paul kept the seventh day sabbath at the river I know the apostles all continued to keep it
(I am not circumcized and never will be)
But the law is eternal.
only makes sense
Read 1 John 2 John 3 John James Revelation
you will be blessed.
and when Revelation says Here are the few who are going to heaven, they keep the commandments of God even the sabbath...
its in revelation 22 somewhere.
those who do NOT do the word of God are like those who build their houses on sand, they will fall
there is a parable on the man who built his house on the sand if someone will find it.
the one who built his house on the rock is one who READS HIS BIBLE AND OBEYS AND DOES ALL THAT IT TELLS US TO DO
I want to be on the rock, regardless of what men say.
Eternal security is very nice. I am secure in my bible that says,
Follow me!
I will be secure who follows the word of God and reads and does it
When Jesus tells me from the mountian REMEMBER the Sabbath,
I will each week.
When David says in Psalms"Thy ten ommandments are eternal, o God!" I believe that too/
and when I read Paul kept the seventh day sabbath at the river I know the apostles all continued to keep it
(I am not circumcized and never will be)
But the law is eternal.
only makes sense
Read 1 John 2 John 3 John James Revelation
you will be blessed.
and when Revelation says Here are the few who are going to heaven, they keep the commandments of God even the sabbath...
its in revelation 22 somewhere.
those who do NOT do the word of God are like those who build their houses on sand, they will fall
there is a parable on the man who built his house on the sand if someone will find it.
the one who built his house on the rock is one who READS HIS BIBLE AND OBEYS AND DOES ALL THAT IT TELLS US TO DO
I want to be on the rock, regardless of what men say.
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Even more problematic for you. OSAS IS a Calvinistic tenet of the umbrella of Predestination. It ONLY fits in his theology because God decreed that certain individuals would be saved eternally. Obviously then man has no imput, is not a moral agent, has not rational soul, in other words, has not free will.
You, and I take your word for it are not a Calvinists, but you are trying to put a Calvinist, predestinated tenet into a non-predestined theology. You know the square peg in a round hole. It cannot be done which is why nothing you are explaining aligns with scripture. Along with the fact that you are applying Christ's work as the same as attaining eternal life.
You, and I take your word for it are not a Calvinists, but you are trying to put a Calvinist, predestinated tenet into a non-predestined theology. You know the square peg in a round hole. It cannot be done which is why nothing you are explaining aligns with scripture. Along with the fact that you are applying Christ's work as the same as attaining eternal life.
Dont you understand , let me speak to you plainly the flesh strives against the spirit therefore it is natural to feel objected to the righteous ways of God , but instead let me bless you that you may see what liberation feels like , before i go explaini.g , i need go ask you a question , have you received the Holy Spirit gift ?
Again, Cassian, you just go on & on, up and saying things without any proof at all. God's word is like a fire and like a hammer that breaks the bones. Man's word proves nothing. It is straw of man.
Guarantees:
Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that you have eternal life, even unto you who believe on the name of the Son of God.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life."
"The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not I only, but also all they that know the truth; for the truth’s sake which abides in us, and it shall be with us for ever: "
For by one offering he has perfected forever them who are sanctified.
Every one that commits sin is the bondservant of sin. And the bondservant abides not in the house forever: the son abides forever. If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you forever
The eternal God is thy dwelling-place,
And underneath are the everlasting arms.
And the witness is this, that God gave to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has the life; he that has not the Son of God has not the life.
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that the Son may glorify thee: even as thou gavest him authority over all flesh, that to all whom thou hast given him, he should give eternal life. And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.
Cassian, I commend you for hitting the nail on the head by raising that most important issue: namely that what is the ultimate blessing is having communion with the Lord Jesus forever. And "knowing Christ" implies that.
Guarantees:
Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that you have eternal life, even unto you who believe on the name of the Son of God.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life."
"The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not I only, but also all they that know the truth; for the truth’s sake which abides in us, and it shall be with us for ever: "
For by one offering he has perfected forever them who are sanctified.
Every one that commits sin is the bondservant of sin. And the bondservant abides not in the house forever: the son abides forever. If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you forever
The eternal God is thy dwelling-place,
And underneath are the everlasting arms.
And the witness is this, that God gave to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has the life; he that has not the Son of God has not the life.
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that the Son may glorify thee: even as thou gavest him authority over all flesh, that to all whom thou hast given him, he should give eternal life. And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.
Cassian, I commend you for hitting the nail on the head by raising that most important issue: namely that what is the ultimate blessing is having communion with the Lord Jesus forever. And "knowing Christ" implies that.
eternally_grateful,
fallacy of argument again. Or a strawman again.
We are NOT even speaking about what Christ did through His Incarnation, deaht and resurrection. This is the Gift of salvation He gave to all men, to the world. However, there was a purpose of why He saved the world from death and sin.
To be reunited with man in an eternal union of communion. It is this union of which this discusion is about. That union is NOT guaranteed to any man just on the basis of simple faith. That is ONLY a starting point. This is what Adam was doing, this is what man was created to do. God was testing and maturing Adam and He is doing the same for us as believers. Which is why OSAS is Satanic heresy to reverse the OP topic.
YOu are denying God's sovereign purpose in creating man and then Christ saving man from death and sin. or short version, from the fall.
YOu are right no man needs to do anything to get this gift, and he cannot lose it, Even beleivers were given this gift. We shall all be raised in the last day. Christ gave life to the world. Death was the end of man and the world.
this is your continuation of your strawman because you are actually not even on topic.
This is why I also explained to you much earlier that your terminology is confusing you. Salvation is what Christ did for every man. The attaining eternal life is what man's response is,(faith) works with God to attain eternal life.
First there is no such thing as sincere belief. This seems to be a crutch you are using, redefining words to help support a theory not found in scripture. The point is that man is free. Man can decided to revert back to his old ways. God cannot force man to stay. See the story of Adam again.
He did, but for everyone, including the world was reconciled back to God. But this makes it possible for you a believer in the 21st century to decide to join with HIm now and for eternity. But God does not force you to join with Him, He cannot force you to stay either. That is dependent of your free will. You are being influenced by HIm as much as you are being influenced by Satan, and which way you go, is all on you. That is why YOU will be judged, not God.
This is the direct opposite of the meaning of the parable. You are right that the first example are those who hear but immediately turned it away. However all of the rest are believers. They believed, it took root. That is a bonefied believer, a person who repented, who was baptised and is IN Christ. However, as the parable shows, other things became more important in life, the pleasures of the world, snuffed out their faith. They lost faith. That is precisely what most of the NT is teaching. Man cannot guarantee his faith.
fallacy of argument again. Or a strawman again.
We are NOT even speaking about what Christ did through His Incarnation, deaht and resurrection. This is the Gift of salvation He gave to all men, to the world. However, there was a purpose of why He saved the world from death and sin.
To be reunited with man in an eternal union of communion. It is this union of which this discusion is about. That union is NOT guaranteed to any man just on the basis of simple faith. That is ONLY a starting point. This is what Adam was doing, this is what man was created to do. God was testing and maturing Adam and He is doing the same for us as believers. Which is why OSAS is Satanic heresy to reverse the OP topic.
YOu are denying God's sovereign purpose in creating man and then Christ saving man from death and sin. or short version, from the fall.
YOu are right no man needs to do anything to get this gift, and he cannot lose it, Even beleivers were given this gift. We shall all be raised in the last day. Christ gave life to the world. Death was the end of man and the world.
this is your continuation of your strawman because you are actually not even on topic.
This is why I also explained to you much earlier that your terminology is confusing you. Salvation is what Christ did for every man. The attaining eternal life is what man's response is,(faith) works with God to attain eternal life.
First there is no such thing as sincere belief. This seems to be a crutch you are using, redefining words to help support a theory not found in scripture. The point is that man is free. Man can decided to revert back to his old ways. God cannot force man to stay. See the story of Adam again.
He did, but for everyone, including the world was reconciled back to God. But this makes it possible for you a believer in the 21st century to decide to join with HIm now and for eternity. But God does not force you to join with Him, He cannot force you to stay either. That is dependent of your free will. You are being influenced by HIm as much as you are being influenced by Satan, and which way you go, is all on you. That is why YOU will be judged, not God.
This is the direct opposite of the meaning of the parable. You are right that the first example are those who hear but immediately turned it away. However all of the rest are believers. They believed, it took root. That is a bonefied believer, a person who repented, who was baptised and is IN Christ. However, as the parable shows, other things became more important in life, the pleasures of the world, snuffed out their faith. They lost faith. That is precisely what most of the NT is teaching. Man cannot guarantee his faith.
You go on and on, claiming things, as if they should be believed because you say them. Try God's word; the entrance of God's word brings light. The Calvinist system includes perseverence of the saints, yes. But many who do not buy Calvinism believe in eternal security.
But the issue is not Calvinism, the issue is what does God's Word say?
Does it say something about "should not perish but have everlasting life?"
I don't think that prophet Peter ever heard of Calvin:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
But the issue is not Calvinism, the issue is what does God's Word say?
Does it say something about "should not perish but have everlasting life?"
I don't think that prophet Peter ever heard of Calvin:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
You chide me for just saying things. Yet all you do is cite texts. Citing texts is no proof of anything. Have you not noticed how many versions man has created with texts. You are holding to one of those man made theories in this thread, OSAS. You cite scriptures that don't support it. I can show using the very same text and give you the meaning the Holy Spirit gave to them, in the beginning and the meaning has not changed in 2000 years. It is NOT man derived as OSAS.
You are going to need a lot more proof than citing texts to prove OSAS.
You are going to need a lot more proof than citing texts to prove OSAS.
But where is your proof of OSAS. I am not just saying things. This is historical and scriptural history. Granted it you don't study Church history or what scripture meant from the beginning, you will need to rely upon either you own intellect or soem other guy like Calvin. He relied upon Augustine who adopted ideas from the Gnostics and Manicheanism.
As to the text you quoted, it denies OSAS very clearly. Your eternal life is awaiting you, it is reserved for you and will be revealed to you in the last time. (your death). NOthing about having it given absolutely upon initial faith.
Amazing that you use texts that are so clearly against the very view you are trying to prove.
As to the text you quoted, it denies OSAS very clearly. Your eternal life is awaiting you, it is reserved for you and will be revealed to you in the last time. (your death). NOthing about having it given absolutely upon initial faith.
Amazing that you use texts that are so clearly against the very view you are trying to prove.
! pet 1:4,5
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The inheritance is incorruptible, undefiled and fadeth not away, but that in no way means that eternal life is a unconditional guarantee as eternal security makes it out to be.
Peter says "Who (Christians) are kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH. Note Christians are NOT kept UNCONDITIONALLY for If a Christian casts aside his faith he is no longer kept. So being faithful unto death, Rev 2:10 is a CONDITIONAL requirement for the Christian to maintain his salvation and be kept by God.
Do you agree with Charles Stanley, who wrote the following in his book called "Eternal Security Can You Be Sure?"
“The Bible clearly teaches that God’s love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand." p74
"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy" p93
"...believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation ….” p94
If Stanley really believes these false ideas he wrote, then he must believe one can be saved without grace.
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