Is there such a thing as an atheist?

[nl]

Q. How can there be a beginning to the universe and not have a cause to that beginning? A. There must be a cause. If there must be a cause, then there must be a god.

The universe had a beginning and Almighty God launched that beginning.

Christianity had a beginning and Jesus Christ launched that beginning.

By the end of the first century, the Bible had been written and copies had begun to proliferate. How could Christianity have been launched and early disciples multiplied and early missionaries sent and early churches planted if the stories concerning Jesus never happened? They did happen and the movement of Christ followers has grown from generation to generation since Jesus lived, died and rose from the dead.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I wouldn't be so sure. Denials are rampant among human beings. Many saw miracles at the time of Jesus and yet did not believe. Even today, people would not all respond the same way to different manifestations of the miraculous.

Aye this is a good point indeed, so I don't mean to underwrite your goodly point. Also do not forget the Dark Ages wiped out most all information on the Ancients besides that which the goodly Catholic Monks preserved. However, even despite this, in terms of these particular events accompanying the Crucifixion, the earthquake and unnatural darkness, even non-Christians reported these events as actually taking place even though they didn't rightly understand it. The Bible is a lot more true than I think even some Christians are aware of.

 

[Cycel]

Anger? I didn't say anything about anger or vengeance. Where's this coming from?

... You know as well as anyone that Christians can become angry and say things that are counterproductive.... As a Christian, it is a constant battle for some to overcome their anger. I have this problem as well. While I usually do pretty good in this forum (deleting things that I know I shouldn't post), but in person sometimes I let a "discussion" get to me. It is understandable, since we feel that salvation is important (and it is), but " A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger" (Proverbs 15:1)...

I see. I've never had a problem with anger. A number of people have told me I have the patience of Job.

 

[Timeline]

I see. I've never had a problem with anger. A number of people have told me I have the patience of Job.

Yes, I think you could be a great asset to the kingdom of God. But I hope you will come to God, not for what you could offer, but for you. The blessings of God are of this lifetime and the next. Although, I have to mention that Job did not turn from God even during much suffering.

 

[Cycel]

Science shows that the universe had a beginning. Someone launched that beginning.

However, the belief that the universe was caused to happen by God is a faith claim. It is not based on evidence. It is based upon religious conviction. Have you heard of Lawrence Krauss's book entitled A Universe from Nothing? Below is a link to a lecture by the same title: 'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009 - YouTube

Earth provides us with a home. Someone put that home there.

Again, it is from faith that you imagine 'someone' must have created the Earth. The Nebular Hypothesis explains the formation of a star system without recourse to divine intervention. In fact God doesn't even rate a mention in the this hypothesis, it being so well understood. Calling upon God to explain the existence of the Sun and Earth would be like calling upon him to explain thunderstorms. This was perhaps necessary in Job's day, but not any longer.

If it turns out that our Milkyway galaxy is full of stars with earth-like planets that are habitable then Earth loses its special status as being unique. The Nebular Hypothesis predicts that there should be many such worlds, just as there are many thunderstorms on Earth. If there was only ever one thunderstorm in the world then that thunderstorm would claim a special status, but as they are common place we do not need to imagine a special status for them. Your belief that the Earth is unique enhances your assumption that it must have been created by a deity, but science has no need of that hypothesis. The Earth is explained quite well without God.

Nebular hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Existence without causation makes no logical sense (Sorry, Cycel, but it doesn't.).

We do not need the supernatural to explain the existence of stars and planets. Really, Nl, we don’t; and I no longer need the God Hypothesis, I have a better one that explains much more -- the Nebular Hypothesis.

 

[Simona25]

Either there is evidence for God and Zeus or there isn't. I just don't see any, though I have looked rather long and hard hoping to find some (I should note that I haven’t actually looked for any evidence for the existence of Zeus), but the comparison is still well and good.

Leave Zeus alone and keep looking and hoping for Christ-God. That's all I can say.
Be blessed!

 

[phil112]

..............................We do not need the supernatural to explain the existence of stars and planets. Really, Nl, we don’t; and I no longer need the God Hypothesis, I have a better one that explains much more -- the Nebular Hypothesis.

Cycel, I am probably the least antagonistic to you here, indeed, you make some good points a good part of the time, but here you sound a tad arrogant. If God is real (and I assure you He is, you just don't accept legal evidence) then you absolutely need Him. Because man has discovered how God works, doesn't mean there is no God. Simply put, there is no such thing as magic. I will reiterate a point I made earlier - everything has a reason. Cause and effect. Action, equal reaction. Those are real, and God works within those parameters. No I shouldn't say that: God created those parameters.
To think that understanding how something works is proof there is no God is much more than laughable. Man cannot duplicate creation. There is overwhelming evidence of intelligent design. That should not be dismissed so lightly. You know indeed, the bible is an incredible book. To consider it a farce, one must conclude there is complicity and duplicity by hundreds of thousands of people over thousands of years. Why, that belief alone would testify to the existence of a sinister force! Does the name satan ring a bell?

 

[nl]

However, the belief that the universe was caused to happen by God is a faith claim. It is not based on evidence. It is based upon religious conviction. Have you heard of Lawrence Krauss's book entitled A Universe from Nothing? Below is a link to a lecture by the same title: 'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009 - YouTube

I watched a few minutes of this but cannot watch more now.

The belief that the universe was caused by God is logical. Nothing comes into being today without a cause. The logical conclusion that everything that has a beginning has a cause has been observed empirically without a proven exception.

Assertions on realities before the beginning of the universe require some level of speculation and presumption.

Aseity : the quality or state of being self-derived or self-originated;specifically: the absolute self-sufficiency, independence, and autonomy of God. - Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aseity

Aseity is an attribute of God. When we begin describe the universe or the cosmos with divine attributes, then we begin to cross the line into pantheism.

It is easy to see where that logic goes. The universe is divine. Every member of humanity is part of the stardust of the universe. Therefore, we...

 

[homwardbound]

I feel I should clarify, the statements are not true, but they do have truth in them. I think that was clear, but I explained anyway.

And God told Adam what would become if ate, God did not lie, ever since we all die, today physical, yet not spiritually, thank you Jesus for being my and all who beleive the propitiation for the sin of this world

 

[homwardbound]

Hi Homwardbound,
Yes, until then. Once I have the evidence before me then I will believe, but that is all I have asked for all along. It makes more sense to supply the evidence while I am living than to wait till I am dead. Don't you think?

You mentioned demons, and I just wonder now, what are they? Do you perceive them as fallen angels? Presumably God's angels were beings of light and possessors of great beauty, so if demons are simply turn-cloak angels, would they still not look like angels? Did their rejection of God somehow cause them to become misshapen?

Brother, you have already seen and know deep down in your heart, God is God, and the only way to Father is through Son.
This you already know, and reject with your logic, okay, so be it, as God and I and all true believers just love you in spite of what you know you deserve as we do as well. Which is Death. For we all here have sinned, have done another wrong, have we not?

 

[homwardbound]

I didn't mention Jesus because it was to the Virgin Mary that the prayers were offered. Marina Nemat had been Catholic before her forced conversion to Islam at the age of sixteen and so naturally prayers to enhance fertility would have been offered to the Mother of God.


Does it say in scripture that Satan cannot influence a pregnancy? Certainly Satan could be aware of a prayer. All he need do is listen.

Yep, and is why to not say them aloud, and to go in to your closet and pray, silently, and not out in the open for all to hear. Truly that is the only reward that those that do this for support of others, to be noticed by others, have gotten their reward
Seeing past this world and all its gloss, is not possible until one submits in free choice to the creator of all, known today as Father of Christ, seeing Christ is the only perfect one for us to follow in trust, that what he did att he cross was and is for us all to come to believe, then receive and see
Believe without evidence, is something spoke of by Christ when Thomas needed proof as you do Cycel

And I see you do know scripture, So be it as you wish, it is your free choice and I just love you anyway as is:

 

[homwardbound]

Cycel, no matter what God the creator of all you see and do not see, plain and simple does just love you

 

[nl]

I see. I've never had a problem with anger. A number of people have told me I have the patience of Job.

We have seen evidence of that. I believe that.

 

[Kerry]

Yep, and is why to not say them aloud, and to go in to your closet and pray, silently, and not out in the open for all to hear. Truly that is the only reward that those that do this for support of others, to be noticed by others, have gotten their reward
Seeing past this world and all its gloss, is not possible until one submits in free choice to the creator of all, known today as Father of Christ, seeing Christ is the only perfect one for us to follow in trust, that what he did att he cross was and is for us all to come to believe, then receive and see
Believe without evidence, is something spoke of by Christ when Thomas needed proof as you do Cycel

And I see you do know scripture, So be it as you wish, it is your free choice and I just love you anyway as is:

Thats why we pray in tongues.

 

[PennEd]

There may indeed be such a thing as an atheist, but VERY FEW would ever trust them:

Poll: Americans More Likely To Vote For An Adulterer Over An Atheist By An 18-Point Margin… | Weasel Zippers

 

[doseofreality]

There may indeed be such a thing as an atheist, but VERY FEW would ever trust them:

Poll: Americans More Likely To Vote For An Adulterer Over An Atheist By An 18-Point Margin… | Weasel Zippers

I wonder how the poll would look if they changed the word "Atheist" to "Non-religious"?

Unfortunately the word "atheist" in America still has a bad connotation, but practically speaking it refers to anyone who does not actively hold to any religious beliefs including belief in those religions god(s).

 

[Cycel]

Cycel. It is obvious how you have set your heart...to not believe in God. Why have have you dug in your heals?

Giving you the complete story would require many typed pages, but perhaps a very short synopsis is possible.

It may look to you as if I have obstinately dug in my heels, but I assure you it took me a number of years to move from a standpoint of faith to reason. As a child I was surrounded by Christian culture and was taught biblical inerrancy in church. This inevitably became a problem and as time went on it became more and more difficult for me to accept this dogmatic claim. I think had I been raised on a more liberal diet I might not have begun questioning, but as it stood I came – perhaps wrongly – to the conclusion that if any part of scripture was in error then it must all be wrong. My atheism might well be a consequence of my strict literal upbringing.

As it stands now both history and science, for me, point the way to a better understanding of reality than what is served up in scripture. Those who interpret scripture literally pass their understanding of reality, first and foremost, through the lens of the Bible, just as Muslims pass their critical thinking through the lens of the Koran, ignoring all other observations that might impart a different understanding.

Does it make your life easier and make more sense.

Does everything make more sense as an atheist? Absolutely. Does non-belief make it easier to get through life’s pitfalls? I don’t know, but that’s not the criteria I use for determining reality.

To what bar do you hold your character too?

I don’t subscribe to the notion that one cannot be good without God. Sam Harris addresses this issue in his book The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values.

Was the polishing wheel of God too much for you?

???

Did you lose a loved one?

No. There was no trauma. It is hard for you to understand, I know, believing in the clear visibility of God as you do, but it is possible for some of us simply to have no awareness of God and over time stop believing in those things for which we can find no evidence. For me God is completely invisible, always has been. I no longer believe in those things I can’t see.

You said earlier that you left the fold because God didnt answer you.

I have inadvertently given you the wrong understanding. I stopped believing in God because I saw no evidence of God and because science and history had better answers for everything. Then at sixteen I decided to give God one last chance and threw myself into prayer and the Bible. God never revealed himself during that time and so I came to the conclusion that I must have been correct about his non-existence. Sometime during the months following I had a single epiphany that confirmed in my mind that I had truly lost all belief in God. Clearly, had God existed that was the time for him to reveal himself to me. He did not. I am only saying that had he revealed himself I would now believe

 

[FlyPoster]

I submit they are simply liars - to themselves and to those they tell that to. We have all heard the saying "there are no atheists in foxholes", well I believe that is true. I believe when facing death every man knows he is facing a meeting with his maker. People simply want to be the man in charge. They don't want to answer to anyone, or anything else. They want to believe they are the ultimate authority in their life, that they run the show. I had a thought a couple of days ago - how long would it take an atheist in a space ship, after being jettisoned out the door like so much flotsam, to call on God? That thought alone makes one feel quite insignificant.

I have to disagree. When my Grandmother passed on I was there when she died, she was of course scared of dying, death is like being asked to leave the party, whilst the party continues. At the time I was a Christian, and now I regret talking to her about Jesus in the hospital after her first heart attack, as these days I have a lack of belief in God. She was well aware that death was imminent, she was afraid, and yet did not change her view that belief in God is superstition.

I will concede that deathbed confessions occur, to claim that it happens to everyone is big claim, that requires evidence - especially considering the documented cases of this not happening like Christopher Hitchins' death:

Christopher Hitchens' widow on his death: "God never came up" - CBS News

 

[doseofreality]

I have to disagree. When my Grandmother passed on I was there when she died, she was of course scared of dying, death is like being asked to leave the party, whilst the party continues. At the time I was a Christian, and now I regret talking to her about Jesus in the hospital after her first heart attack, as these days I have a lack of belief in God. She was well aware that death was imminent, she was afraid, and yet did not change her view that belief in God is superstition.

I will concede that deathbed confessions occur, to claim that it happens to everyone is big claim, that requires evidence - especially considering the documented cases of this not happening like Christopher Hitchins' death:

Christopher Hitchens' widow on his death: "God never came up" - CBS News

 

[Sirk]

Giving you the complete story would require many typed pages, but perhaps a very short synopsis is possible.

It may look to you as if I have obstinately dug in my heels, but I assure you it took me a number of years to move from a standpoint of faith to reason. As a child I was surrounded by Christian culture and was taught biblical inerrancy in church. This inevitably became a problem and as time went on it became more and more difficult for me to accept this dogmatic claim. I think had I been raised on a more liberal diet I might not have begun questioning, but as it stood I came – perhaps wrongly – to the conclusion that if any part of scripture was in error then it must all be wrong. My atheism might well be a consequence of my strict literal upbringing.

As it stands now both history and science, for me, point the way to a better understanding of reality than what is served up in scripture. Those who interpret scripture literally pass their understanding of reality, first and foremost, through the lens of the Bible, just as Muslims pass their critical thinking through the lens of the Koran, ignoring all other observations that might impart a different understanding.


Does everything make more sense as an atheist? Absolutely. Does non-belief make it easier to get through life’s pitfalls? I don’t know, but that’s not the criteria I use for determining reality.


I don’t subscribe to the notion that one cannot be good without God. Sam Harris addresses this issue in his book The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values.

???


No. There was no trauma. It is hard for you to understand, I know, believing in the clear visibility of God as you do, but it is possible for some of us simply to have no awareness of God and over time stop believing in those things for which we can find no evidence. For me God is completely invisible, always has been. I no longer believe in those things I can’t see.


I have inadvertently given you the wrong understanding. I stopped believing in God because I saw no evidence of God and because science and history had better answers for everything. Then at sixteen I decided to give God one last chance and threw myself into prayer and the Bible. God never revealed himself during that time and so I came to the conclusion that I must have been correct about his non-existence. Sometime during the months following I had a single epiphany that confirmed in my mind that I had truly lost all belief in God. Clearly, had God existed that was the time for him to reveal himself to me. He did not. I am only saying that had he revealed himself I would now believe

Why are you wasting your time here. Your life is passing you by and this is it for you. Seems like a better use of your time is in order.