A "New" Breed of Rebel: The Intellectual "Bad Boy" (Or Girl)?

[Arlene89]

Ah, different people set up different kinds of walls. People tend to hide themselves. I believe that there are a lot of people out there who go out of their way to push others far from them, whether it be physically, emotionally, I guess in this case, even intellectually. Some of these people are probably simply hurting.

I've met many people who hid behind their intellect because they felt that they were emotionally, socially or physically weak. Their well structured arguments, their intelligently woven insults and covert self-exalting postings through online networks were ways to boast on their own strength and to push people away from seeing the 'real' them.

Obviously. this isn't always the case, and probably for a small minority, but I knew a few people who patterned their life this way. Or I just over think things and always conclude people do whack things because they're 'hurting'. I dunno.

 

[MidniteWelder]

I'm not in awe, mister. Cut the act!

I wasn't acting

 

[seoulsearch]

I have a tip for you: put in the time and effort to improve your own skill sets to a point of competency and mastery and then you won't feel so intimidated by others whom have put years of hard work to gain those skills sets that you feel you have to write these long winded posts criticizing them/us/whomever.

Count on me for what? I never took offense. Why are you fabricating so much false innuendo from my simple post and twisting it so badly?

Obviously, I never called you a moron. I just gave my viewpoint that you appear to be overly sensitive (which has been substantiated by your overly defensive reply here) and somewhat intimidated by serious debates and offered what I have observed is one way to overcome that.

But if you'd rather be immature then by all means carry on.

Age, your post was the very first reply to this thread so if it wasn't directed specifically towards me, I'm not sure exactly whom you were speaking too. Feel free to tell us exactly whom your first post was aimed at because just as you took this thread to be about something personal in you, I took your reply as being something personal against me.

This certainly hasn't been the first time you've spoken to me this way in the forums and I'm sure it won't be the last. When I said I knew I could count on you, what I meant is that I knew I could count on you to have something to say and it didn't surprise me that you spoke in such a derogatory manner.

If you feel I'm immature or whatever else you seem to think I am that doesn't meet up to your standards and deserves your harsh rebukes, will you just grant me this one favor? Pray about it. Go to God in your prayers today and tell him everything you think is wrong about me and anything else you feel I'm doing wrong.

Whatever attitudes, "long-winded" posts I'm making in judgment of others, or other grievous errors you feel I'm making, I want you to tell God about each and every one, and be sure to mention my name so that He knows specifically whom you're talking about! I always invite anyone who feels I'm in the wrong to do this.

I personally don't feel I've done anything for you to speak to me in such a way, but I know that if God happens to agree with you, He'll be sure to correct me over anything He feels I'm doing wrong and it will help me be a better person. If He thinks I'm being immature as you say, I know He'll correct and redirect me.

If, by some chance, I'm doing something right, God will be just about that as well. I know He is always fair in His judgment. It also may be different for you, but I've found that when something someone writes bothers me in my heart and I pray about it, God works on me as well as He sees fit.

As I said, I don't feel I've done anything to deserve the the harsh answers but God may feel differently. Either way, I know it's a chance to let Him intervene, and I thank you in advance for remembering me.

 

[cinder]

Well a friend once described me as a humble lovable pharisee and I hope I still live up to that definition. But I think this thread has become a great example of what seoul originally posted about. Here's the crux of it: Most of us desperately long to be right and most of us are afraid that we are not right. So we can't just let a matter drop.
Age's reply to seoul's original post was arrogant, but after seoul apologized for giving offense, the correct, mature, Christian response should have been 1) none taken, 2) apology accepted, or 3) nothing at all because it didn't need a reply. To continue it as long as it has only shows insecurity on both sides (yes I just called you both a bit insecure; since most people are I don't see that as much more of an insult than calling you normal and any arguing of this point will only prove that you are insecure about being seen as insecure ).

Anyway as to the original point:

I was another one of those smart kids. Even my college professors told me I was very bright. The thing people never understand is that I simply cannot understand what it means for people to be less intelligent or have a harder time retaining knowledge than I do. What is common knowledge in my head are things that I am so used to knowing that I assume everyone else knows them as well. I truly am astounded by the lack of figuring it out skills that many people have. This is the perspective and life experience I come from, not any intent to belittle people. I may well look at you in bafflement when you say you've never heard of that idea before and sometimes I know I have made people feel stupid (like the high school kid who didn't know what the word coil meant when he was taking his test). I like to think that I'm not of the class of people that seoul described since if you show an eagerness to learn I will gladly explain things to you.

The flip side of this is that I can also lecture, Sheldon Cooper-like, on topics that are not of interest to people. It's how I make a contribution and usually I find ideas much more interesting than the daily events of people's lives. As far as using intellect to put people down, that has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with insecurity. It's really no different than any other attempt to put people down, it's because a person feels inadequate and needs to convince himself (and everyone else) that he is not the most inadequate person around.

Bible talks about this:

Yes we know that "we all have knowledge about this issue (food sacrificed to idols in context)". But while knowledge makes us feel important, it is love that strengthens the church. Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn't really know very much. But the person who loves God is known by God. - 1 Cor 8:1-3

[ Paul lists his short resume] I once thought all these things were valuable but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done. Yes everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage so that I could gain Christ and become one with him. - Philippians 3:7-8

So seoul, thanks for writing posts that are longer than mine. I was starting to get self conscious about my long and thorough posts.

Age you shared in my criticism so I owe you some sort of compliment, but I don't know you well enough yet to know what I would compliment about you.

And now the important question, would it be incredibly trollish of me to post anti-arguing verses in the Bible discussion forum for people to discuss?

 

[seoulsearch]

Hi Cinder,

Because I know I do write particularly long posts, I try not to post that often , and of course, choosing not to read a long post is also a viable option. I most certainly don't claim to know any (or even a few) of the answers, which is one of the reasons I like the discussions here--because I learn so much from them.

I understand that you may see me as insecure, and I think we all have our insecurities, but no, my motive in subsequent was not insecurity but the same reason for my long posts--stating facts and giving people a background as to why I'm even writing in the first place. One of the points of my original post is that many others of us, not just the ones who are more in the forefront, have put a lot of work and effort into studies and gaining knowledge/wisdom as well.

But despite my long posts, I'm apparently not communicating my thoughts very accurately, which is why I keep posting (practicing. ) Each person will always have their own viewpoints and we will all disagree here and there, but I'm glad you posted your own perspective as well. .

 

[seoulsearch]

I truly am astounded by the lack of figuring it out skills that many people have. This is the perspective and life experience I come from, not any intent to belittle people. I may well look at you in bafflement when you say you've never heard of that idea before and sometimes I know I have made people feel stupid (like the high school kid who didn't know what the word coil meant when he was taking his test). I like to think that I'm not of the class of people that seoul described since if you show an eagerness to learn I will gladly explain things to you.

This is something I was trying to get at in the original post as well. I'm NOT talking about you directly Cinder because I don't think think you're meaning to be someone like this at all, but what I'm talking about is when you're in a situation in which someone AUTOMATICALLY seems to assume that they are the more knowledgeable party and that you are the lesser party who needs to be taught. When I mention being intimidated by militant intellectuals, what I was trying to demonstrate is that the intimidating part is how they want to bowl you over with their knowledge, NOT the fact that I don't think I could handle what they were trying to teach me.

Have you ever been in a situation in which someone just assumes the full role of teacher and you as the 5-year-old student who has nothing to contribute? This is what I'm talking about. They speak to you, correct you, and sometimes even berate you because they think/assume you are or far lesser ability than they are. They don't even give you a chance or ask anything about you to find out what you might know yourself.

I think it's wonderful if a person knows about something and is sharing it in a kind, considerate manner. What I'm talking about is when the person who assumes the role of The Teacher doesn't ask me about anything I might have studied or experienced myself and have to contribute to the conversation. What's bothering me isn't that someone knows a lot about something and is eager to share it--that's terrific!! Rather, what frustrates me is that lack of acknowledgement that the person they are speaking to may be just as intelligent and have their own set of things to share, if they'd only ask, but they don't. A person who can teach is a blessing; a person who can teach and wants to be taught by someone else in the process is, perhaps, a miracle?!

I'm sorry I ran out of time for the edit in my previous post, but Cinder, this is what I was trying to get throughout this thread. I'm sorry if it's not being communicated clearly. I disagree with your assessment of me, but as with Age, I invite you to pray about whatever it is you may feel is my flaw and I'm sure God will deal with me as He sees fit, right or wrong.

 

[CatHerder]

Hey Everyone,

I've been thinking about this lately and am not 100% sure how to put it into words, so please bear with me.

*Disclaimer: I am NOT trying to insult anyone for believing God has gifted them intellectually (and for some reason, I keep spelling "intellectual" wrong, so please forgive any errors I might make!) We have MULTITUDES of people out there with all kinds of God-given talent who are serving others. What I'm talking about here is the context of people who purposely use their abilities to intimidate or put down other people for their own self-empowerment.*

I have often heard the stereotype that "Women Only Want Bad Boys". When I was younger, the definition of a "Bad Boy" seemed to be someone who depended on a select set of characteristics to get him (or her) by in life: good looks, charm, natural ability, attitude, etc. that supposedly allowed them to "buck" the system or "play by their own set of rules." Supposedly, this was attractive because it displays "confidence". (I was never attracted to this personally.)

As I've gotten older, I seem to be encountering more and more people who felt like misfits or "nerds" in their teens and early adulthood, but as older adults, they're now more confident in their abilities and not afraid to let everyone know exactly how much ability they have. For instance, maybe it's a computer junkie who's turned his once "geeky" (in the eyes of others) hobby into a career and has done quite well because if it. Or maybe it's someone whose study skills always earned top marks, and now as an adult, they've found they can rock most anything involving complex series of information.

Something subtle, and sometimes not-so-subtle that I'm finding in my adult life is what I see as the advent of "The Intellectual Baddie"--someone who is now very confident in their skill set--and not afraid to let other people know it. In fact, they really enjoy crushing people under (what they perceive as being) their vast intellectual superiority. The Bible Discussion room is a classic example. Often times, reading the posts makes one wonder if the goal of some posters is actually to help people better understand The Word of God... or if it's some sort of WWF Championship in which the most militant participants are out to "trump" everyone else with their "obviously" vast, superior knowledge (all in the name of the Lord, of course, which makes it righteous, right???!!!) I have even sometimes read about users bragging that they will "probably be banned" from the site because their understanding is far beyond that of any other participant and therefore, they will be ostracized because of their own superior knowledge.

Interestingly, I've also observed that many who use their intellectualism as their own pedestal often claim they are the nicest, most Godly-serving people around and are quick to declare anyone who rejects them romantically as being "superficial", "worldly", and "only interested in looks or money". Of course, if one wants to make it sound super-spiritual, they will also add, "YOU KNOW, the LORD looks at the HEART."

Yup. I would agree: they are showing their hearts quite readily. And, to tell you the truth, I, not being a person of such vast intellectual superiority, would feel terrified to even ask such a person a question, let alone tell them anything about myself, my life, or my mistakes. They'd just make me feel like a big moron or would pull out their vast "measuring stick", to which I could not compare, as I see them do to anyone else around them... and who wants to be around someone who makes you (or other people) feel that way?

The reason I'm writing this thread is because of my own frustration in the dating world, as well as everyday life. Past examples I have encountered include watching (male and female) co-workers who felt they "knew it all" constantly berate and correct young co-workers who was just starting out, as well as dating situations in which I would watch a guy pretty much talk about how everyone else around him was an idiot... But then somehow I guess he expected me to feel comfortable with not only talking to him, but also somehow forming a close bond, relationship, and intention of marriage!!!

I'm sorry, but my heart just doesn't work that way. Now don't get me wrong. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE intelligent discussion. I may not be able to keep up, but I try to learn whatever I can. I have a good friend who is incredibly talented in the area of law, but he doesn't put me down or make fun of me when I get confused about the differences between, let's say, a felony and a misdemeanor (sorry, I just don't have a lot of experience in breaking the law.) In fact, he always tells me about his older cousin who is "smarter and faster" than he is... supposedly... But because he values the talents in others, he never makes that big of a deal of his own, making him approachable and comfortable to talk to.

I've noticed in the past few years that while I've never been attracted to "traditional bad boys", I'm most certainly not attracted to the intellectual ones either.

And it makes me at a loss of how to explain my reasoning when they sometimes inquire very adamantly as to why I'm not interested in seeing them again. I don't know how to say, "You project yourself as being so smart and way beyond everyone else... that I couldn't see myself as capable, worthy, or smart enough to be able to feel comfortable to talk to you either."

Now I know someone like this might say to himself, "Eh, that's ok!! If her self-esteem is that low, that's her problem and not mine!" or, "She's obviously way below me and too stupid to deserve someone as smart as I am anyway!" Which is all fine and good. And of course, it's not just men. I get frustrated when I see intellectually superior women talking down to other women (often younger) as well. (It happens to me A LOT, because 30-something's often assume I'm younger than they are.)

I'm just never really sure as to how to deal with the situation in hand.

Has anyone else run into this? I would love to hear about your experiences and thoughts. What have you said and done in such situations?

I have a tip for you: put in the time and effort to improve your own skill sets to a point of competency and mastery and then you won't feel so intimidated by others whom have put years of hard work to gain those skills sets that you feel you have to write these long winded posts criticizing them/us/whomever.

I see what you did there, Age! That is sheer genius - providing a practical example of the type of "I'm above you" pompous berating that seoul was trying to describe in her post! Kudos to you, sir!.....

...what? You weren't doing that? umm....well......awkward...

As for the OP - you are describing a certain type of arrogance that people in certain positions can have. They may or may not be official positions of power, they may be competency with a skill set, the confidence that experience brings, a loft position, the local church "Bible scholar," etc.. We've all heard that "power corrupts," but I see it as the power or influence allows one to bring out what is already there. The IT guy who was picked on as a nerdy kid can be smug and condescending when getting the office back on line, or he can do his job with excellent customer service skills.

 

[CatHerder]

stupid five-minut rule...

I should have included that the power or influential position doesn't corrupt, but rather allows one to bring out what is already there.

 

[seoulsearch]

stupid five-minut rule...

I should have included that the power or influential position doesn't corrupt, but rather allows one to bring out what is already there.

Unlike Cat, I don't have the ability to say what I want to say in only a few very well-written, concise paragraphs. Unfortunately, it takes me SEVERAL attempts...

One very positive thing about the criticisms though is that it's helping me to formulate what I was originally trying to say (too bad it only takes me 20 posts in order to do so! ) This is why I post instead of getting on the mic in chat... People can have the option of not reading what I want to say! Cat was there one night as I was trying to explain something and I'm sure he and the others felt as if they had barely escaped with their lives... ("Survivor: Singles Chat Edition.")

What I really long for is a situation in which BOTH (or however many people are involved) people are invited to share what they know and there is COLLECTIVE, not one-sided learning. My posts about my own educational background were simply my way of saying, "Hey, you know stuff, that's great! I know some stuff, too... So let's compare and share stuff!!"

Cat described what I'm trying to say regarding the work situation very well. No one wants to work for a boss or with co-workers who know it all and lord over you.

In the dating world, have you ever been on a date that felt more like sitting in a classroom... by force? They tell you everything THEY know but never ask you about things that you might know, and in fact, they don't even stop to consider that you just might know a few things of your own... And then they wonder why you don't want to see them again, let alone run off and get married.

(I hope everyone keeps posting their thoughts... Thank you all for helping me say what I was originally trying to say in the first place!)

 

[Desdichado]

Intellectual bad boy est. 1990 and still going strong.

I'm sorry, did the fact I broke every sense of self-worth within you break your concentration?

 

[kenthomas27]

All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

 

[JimJimmers]

I have a tip for you: put in the time and effort to improve your own skill sets to a point of competency and mastery and then you won't feel so intimidated by others whom have put years of hard work to gain those skills sets that you feel you have to write these long winded posts criticizing them/us/whomever.

I always arrive late to these parties. AgeofKnowledge, we seem to be sort of friends in the news forum, you have wisdom and experience. I was surprised you wrote what you did above however, it really came across combative.

Also, I hate to be that guy, but in light of the topic:

It's

'then you won't feel so intimidated by others WHO have put years of hard work'

In the sentence, the people who intimidate are the subject, not the object

 

[UpstateNYChristianBro]

Interesting topic. I have thoughts but no comments. Not wanting to offend or anything especially creating controversy.

 

[IloveyouGod]

Good topic Soulsearch. I didn't read the others posts, but they might be going along the same line with me.

I'd like to start by saying that God is fair to give each one of us different talents and it's up to us how we use our talents in a way that honors and praise God. So those intellectuals who thinks themselves are smarter than everybody else are not using God's talent in a Godly way. And like what Grace said, they have issues that's why they are trying hard to stand out by putting everyone else down.

TRUE n' GENUINE intellectual people are humble and graceful n' loving to others. Stupid people are those who thinks they are smarter than everybody else or they are highly educated than everybody else.

Bottom line the minute one think they are better than everyone else, know they are not more than a balloon full of air. All what you need is a needle to blow them up. Best thing is to ignore them. Let them be till reality hits them and shows them who they really are!!

 

[DarlinNadia]

Some of us ain't hardly got no smarts at all...

that's why God made us purdy.

: )

Oi .. here Goes... Grabbed Maxwel's post cause I thought it was awesome.

Caveat: ok.. oi. ok. I'm going to come off MAJORLY ARROGANT HERE ... and that's okay for me because I know my heart's the in right place. NO ONE should take offense to this post because I'm not personally identifying ANYONE... if someone feels I'm speaking about them, there is a serious issue that THEY need to work on because this is a very general approach to a very common problem. Trust me, when I think someone is stupid, i will flat out tell them because I lack that filter of warm and fuzzies that so many other's have and gracefully use as if it did not pain them every step of the way. A skill I do not have at all.

Being someone formerly intellectually brilliant and STILL struggling with it to this day, I can reply from a point of view as someone that possibly appears as that mightier than thou, more educated than you, Grrr my brain is HUGE and your brain causes my brain cells to implode with frustration.

I have been in situations where I am far more educated, far more experienced, and have essentially been there done that wrote the book on it, sold the T-Shirts, and revisited and re-modified the entire scenario from an idiot's point of view based on the amount of people standing around clueless to my intellectual superiority and I was simply forced to DUMB it down a bit so the masses could understand exactly what I was saying... THEN i would have to re-write it as to not openly offend people until I have it down to a Mastery of Helping people Help Themselves but thinking THEY came up with all on their own.

Now, imagine the countless hours spent to help someone help themselves... There's a HUGE difference between STUPIDITY and IGNORANCE... ignorance CAN be taught... Stupidity cannot. Ignorance is willing to learn... Stupidity is not.

When someone is simply stupid it is enormously frustrating because they appear to be more of mindless trolls without the ability to string two thoughts together in the confines of their mind. This inability supersedes having the STRING, two thoughts, and simple directions a monkey can follow. Knowing the task is very simple, seeing others grasp the concept and be successful, and having ONE person be like .. huh? Wha? it is going to leave the intellectual frustrated because the attempt isn't even there. It is like the person that you are speaking to hears exactly what you have said but is in the habit of saying What?? and you repeat it and they again say What? but when you do not repeat it, they actually do what you said because they really truly DID hear you the first two times, they just didn't process it until they actually thought about it.

That is an excellent example. I say Hey lady, Remember to use the key to open the door because they automatic door key fob is not working. Lady says huh? I patiently and gently say, the key fob to open the door is not working so you will need to use the key. Lady says What? I remain silent. I observe. Lady tries the key fob before using the key. I feel my blood siege with frustration but say nothing... because I'm overlooking this situation... Lady returns and says, That automatic key fob doesn't work.. you have to use the key to unlock the door.

I *blink* and *blink* again in silence... Really? I ask ... it comes out hugely condescending. Lady says, Yeah, I tried to use it and the doors didn't unlock, I had to actually use the key to get in the car. At this point, I'm floored by the stupidity. At this point I have 2 choices, I can further investigate this lady's stupidity or I can let it go... Prior to becoming a Christian, I would have toyed with her and let the entire world know .. this person is pretty stupid. Honestly, I fight the temptation as a Christian... I used to think that by allowing this person to stay stupid was a form of lying ... if I were to say > oh thank you for letting me know .. .because I already knew.. in fact I told the lady twice .. so if I say the nice thing.. oh thank you for letting me know, I would essentially be lying. I thought the right thing to do would be to say YES, I KNOW, that is why I told you TWO TIMES and yet you Still insisted on finding this out for yourself so your tidbit of knowledge is wasted on me because I already knew this and you have only proven that you simply are too closed minded to hear what anyone else is trying to tell you. It is a very silly example but hopefully you can see how an intellectual struggles with frustration when dealing with someone stupid.

Same scenario with someone that's ignorant.... ignorant person says, What's a key fob? It's that thing you are holding it's meant to open the doors with a push of a button, but unfortunately it is not working so you have to use the key to open the car doors. Enlightened person says.. oh .. never knew this little gadget was a key fob. thanks No Problem

Intellects want to share their knowledge because it is so much cooler when people understand or are on the same level as them because they can bounce ideas off more people and everyone's on the same page. It makes for deeper more solid discussions.

RE: the Bible study room, I tend to stay out of their because it is as if the Mic timer is more like the 3 minute Pulpit in my opinion and while one person is speaking, other people are not listening but preparing their speech for when they get that pulpit... active listening goes out the window and it turns into a lecture or sermon with a line of speakers. I do not stay in there long enough to have any better of an opinion of it because I find my jaw hurts... not from talking to much but from clenching my teeth in frustration. At least in the lounge, the timer is 60 seconds... there are some pretty stupid mic ninjas there too .. me being one of them ... so I spend time sharing my stupidity but in smaller increments that are more easily ignored or digested.

I think I managed to ruin my chances of ever meeting anyone from Christian Chat with this post.. because I've shown what a jerk i can be and how my mind classifies some people. SOME .. not all, but my hope was that someone that feels less superior in terms of intellect can maybe have a moment where they can see a simple process and understand why the tolerance of a intellect seems so low and why they are quick to snap or make someone feel stupid. It might simply be to test their own theory. I know I've often thought, "no, they can't be that stupid, I have to check this out" then the testing begins and Yep.. they are. Other times, no, they simply were ignorant and no one took the time to teach them and I am gentle and kind and show an incredible amount of patience...

This is why some people hate me and others love me... because when someone is stupid.. I do lack tolerance .. because they aren't even trying ... but when someone just needs to be taught, I have patience, love, tenderheartedness, kindness.. all good Biblical things.. it often happens without me even putting forth effort... But some people will loathe me, and others will go to the ends of the earth to defend me .. neither side seeing the other's point of view and it's likely because of my initial discernment about situations. I'm not always right but I'm rarely wrong and when I was wrong, I was not right. Oooh new topic.. because since I became a Christian, I have been less able to read people correctly.

 

[secularhermit]

Being unwise has brought me where I am.

 

[kenthomas27]

well this has been 30 minutes I'll never get back.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

well this has been 30 minutes I'll never get back.

Did that include drawing time?

 

[DuchessAimee]

This post isn't going to win me friends, but here's my opinion anyway.

This subject has been exhausted. Y'all have proven my point; pride drives everyone. The vast majority of the posts on this thread have proven it.

So here's a crack crime fighting team. Happy Christmas.

 

[MidniteWelder]

's not true Aimee, really I got my official wisdom credentials in the mail today and....

Darn it...publisher's Clearing house...never mind