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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Need I say more about this person being a holocaust denier? Also, we can now add to the list that she is a liar. In her post before last she said she would no longer post about this subject on this thread.
That's it? That's all you got to support your libel!!!

For that you would be laughed out of Court!

You can't be taken seriously.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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oh for.....:(

so, hagee's god sent hitler, and his god said he allowed it to happen BECAUSE his TOP PRIORITY is to get the people to the land of israel.

so the ones who didn't go when the zionists were negotiating with the nazis for emigration/exodus (the 'final solution')....like...oh man. hagee's god was responsible for that i guess.

I labelled all of this as "dispensationalist fantasy" for a reason.
I think Holocaust trivialization is the best description for that video.

Holocaust Trivialization | Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs

"Holocaust trivialization manifests itself partly in the growing use of language concerning a large number of disparate events that have no connection to genocide. Other trivializers operate out of commercial or artistic considerations."
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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eventually someone will make a "typographical error",,,and instead of going to YouTube and typing in "axis war crimes ww2" and by sheer accident they'll(by sheer accident) type in "allied war crimes ww2",,,,,then they'll find the Russians filming their own mass executions,sexual violations ect.,,then by accident they'll find Eisenhower's detention camps where between 1-3 million were starved to death after ww2.,,,maybe they'll stumble across the the articles written by the french government stating "we had to camouflage our men from the Germans,and our wemon from the americans",,,,but it would be a mistake to look in the other direction,,,,
There were WWII POW camps in the U.S.

They were not starved to death, they were allowed to work on American farms for wages.
 
B

BradC

Guest
What does anyone's response 50 years later have to do with the actual events?

Irrelevant, and useful only for more blame-shifting.

Drip. . .drip. . .more guilting. . .more finding some kind of way to make guilty the one who disagrees with you.

It's so weird. . .self-centered. . .this red herring.
It that such a tough question to answer or one that is refused or maybe the answer is not known. This has nothing to do with blame shifting but rather heart attitude. Judiasm is what it is and there is nothing you can do about it, not even by speaking evil of it. Why speak evil of it anyways, what good does it serve. I think that many in Judaism would be greater inclined to listen to the gospel when goodness is extended toward them and not speaking evil. You can convey the truth as Stephen did and Peter did and get two different responses, but love takes the risk because it is motivated to win them to Christ, no matter where they are at and if God has to bring in some form of chastening to get their attention then we should be quiet and study what God is doing and be thankful. I don't despise the Jews or the nation of Israel and do not see any reason to do so, because we were God's enemy by wicked works and God opened our eyes and had mercy upon us in our unbelief. I guess that is too much grace for some.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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not according to Daniel; not completely
Daniel says nothing about the lack of fulfillment in their return from exile.

plus they were scattered again in 70ad
Yep. . .on different ground now.

Righteousness is no longer by faith in the Promise, as it was for Abraham (Ge 15:6),
but now must be in the fulfillment of the Promise, Christ Jesus (Jn 3:18, 36).

And they have rejected him (Jn 3:36).

No promises remaining from the Father to those who reject the Promise, his one and only Son.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I labelled all of this as "dispensationalist fantasy" for a reason.
I think Holocaust trivialization is the best description for that video.

Holocaust Trivialization | Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs

"Holocaust trivialization manifests itself partly in the growing use of language concerning a large number of disparate events that have no connection to genocide. Other trivializers operate out of commercial or artistic considerations."
fair enough.
but since when does anyone have the exclusive claim to a word (which does not relate to how jews died - they were not burned to death) - and why is the tragic and evil treatment of one people group any more important than any other.

this is my complaint. why?

no war crimes or genocides should be trivialized.
but none ought to be virtually glorified; elevated to religious status; or over-ride the significance of others.

the notion that there would be outrage because the german people wish to have the literal holocaust of dresden named such? what is THAT? 20-50G people incinerated over 3 days - civilians. by the allies....on purpose. purely evil.

or operation cast lead (death by burning)....no? not evil?
while the world stood by?

not important?

i know you don't believe that...but this is what we are supposed to be doing.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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......and if God has to bring in some form of chastening to get their attention then we should be quiet and study what God is doing and be thankful......
what chastening?
Antichrist hunting them down and slaughtering 2/3 while you're in heaven at a wedding feast?

ya....you got raptured away from the 'chastening'.

...

"I have found over the last several years that much of the task of a Free Grace teacher is simply to unravel the confusion woven by a long tradition of non-literal interpretation, to help students pay attention to context, and to let words mean what they say. In doing so, I am reminded of dispensational works such as Prophecy Made Plain by C. I. Scofield, where the author shows that prophecy is not impossible to understand if we simply pay attention to context and let the principle of literal interpretation rule. Soteriology is no different...."

Dispensationalism and Free Grace: Intimately Linked Part 1 -- By: Grant Hawley
Journal: Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society
Volume: JOTGES 24:46 (Spring 2011)
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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It that such a tough question to answer or one that is refused or maybe the answer is not known. This has nothing to do with blame shifting but rather heart attitude. Judiasm is what it is and there is nothing you can do about it, not even by speaking evil of it. Why speak evil of it anyways, what good does it serve. I think that many in Judaism
would be greater inclined to listen to the gospel when goodness is extended toward them and not speaking evil.
Here we go again. . .blame-shifting.

The Jews don't believe because those who take the gospel to them do not have pure hearts.

Their continuing in unbelief is not about God hardening their hearts in judgment (Ro 11:25),
it's about the impure hearts of Christians.

Really weird. . .red herring.

I don't despise the Jews or the nation of Israel and do not see any reason to do so, because we were God's enemy by wicked works and God opened our eyes and had mercy upon us in our unbelief.
Compared to those do not "extend goodness toward them?"

A little self-righteous, don't you think?

I guess that is too much grace for some.
More self-righteousness. . .when compared to those for whom it is "too much grace."

You don't even see your own heart attitude, do you (Mt 6:22-23, 7:3-5)?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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yep,i agree at times i post links and think "well,i did a good job of researching,this and this and this,,,,but then i don't agree with that",,,,,it makes me wonder about the other books in the Septuagint(the ones left out of our modern bibles),,,Jesus and the apostles quoted from many of these in the new testament,,, so if Christ quoted from them are they to be considered valid scripture????

that is if he(Jesus) quoted from 1maccabees,,and we then should at least consider it,,,well then in it are letters from Jerusalem to the king of Sparta and the establishment that they(the Spartans) were descendents of Abraham,from the tribe of dan.,,,but then that would mean that a Jew,from the tribe of Dan then would have spoken Doric Greek and then one would have necessity to recon his name in the Greek,although he was a jew. but Christ would have said that,,

he would have said they were dwelling in the very seat of satin (rev.2;13),,,he would have said they practiced idol worship such as the two bull or ba-laam(rev.2;14),,in the same connection as the danite children adopted this practice from mount hermon and spread out. or the very interesting discussion of the calculation of the Jewish name in greek,that is "let he that hath wisdom "count"=phephizo, Greek Lexicon :: G5585 (KJV)

and if that was so he(Christ in this same letter,to the same church(pergomos),, Kingdoms of Anatolia - Pergamum and would have linked back to the same wording rev. 2;17,,a "white stone",,that is instead of having voted for or against (yes stone=white),,,or(black stone=no),,he(Christ) would have made this connection..

but thats only if Christ quoted from 1maccabes https://www.google.com/search?clien...a=X&ei=fyVQUoaAB5Pu9AS1noD4Dw&ved=0CCkQvwUoAA ,,,,then i guess it would spark a curiosity to search for letters written between Jerusalem and the king of Sparta about their kinship https://www.google.com/search?q=lat...inship&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1 ,,,,,
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
fair enough.
but since when does anyone have the exclusive claim to a word (which does not relate to how jews died - they were not burned to death) - and why is the tragic and evil treatment of one people group any more important than any other.

this is my complaint. why?

no war crimes or genocides should be trivialized.
but none ought to be virtually glorified; elevated to religious status; or over-ride the significance of others.

the notion that there would be outrage because the german people wish to have the literal holocaust of dresden named such? what is THAT? 20-50G people incinerated over 3 days - civilians. by the allies....on purpose. purely evil.

or operation cast lead (death by burning)....no? not evil?
while the world stood by?

not important?

i know you don't believe that...but this is what we are supposed to be doing.
Don't forget the Russian pogram slaughtering millions of Armenians.

Who did anything about that?
 
Dec 21, 2012
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if you want to say that samuel clemens was gay then spell it out
Unlike you, Samuel Clemens is not promoting unmitigated violent debauchery under the guise of Zionism in the early 21st century.

Samuel Clemens, better known as Mark Twain, wrotein 1898:

Modern Israel is full of perversion just like California. I don't ask anyone to support California and I live here!


Why, exactly, should Christians support this, CoooCaw?

Jerusalem gay pride - 2010 -> Kiss and tell Israel News | Haaretz

pride1.jpg


Why should Christians support this, CoooCaw?

Purim 2013

purim1.jpg
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
yep,i agree at times i post links and think "well,i did a good job of researching,this and this and this,,,,but then i don't agree with that",,,,,it makes me wonder about the other books in the Septuagint(the ones left out of our modern bibles),,,Jesus and the apostles quoted from many of these in the new testament,,, so if Christ quoted from them are they to be considered valid scripture????
I would appreciate some examples of such quoting, from you, not from a website.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Don't forget the Russian pogram slaughtering millions of Armenians.

Who did anything about that?
did they ever get the "right" to call it genocide?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Unlike you, Samuel Clemens is not promoting unmitigated violent debauchery under the guise of Zionism in the early 21st century.
Modern Israel is full of perversion just like California. I don't ask anyone to support California and I live here!
Praus, those pictures are most offensive to those saved by the blood of Jesus Christ,
and are contrary to the NT command:

"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely,
whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things."(Php 4:8)

Let's not do anymore of that, okay?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Praus, those pictures are most offensive to those saved by the blood of Jesus Christ,
and are contrary to the NT command:

"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely,
whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things."(Php 4:8)

Let's not do anymore of that, okay?
i understand Elin, and agree.
however, the Israel-worshippers need a wakeup call at times.

anyways.....laterz
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
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There were WWII POW camps in the U.S.

They were not starved to death, they were allowed to work on American farms for wages.
yes there were about 450,000 axis pow's in the u.s.,,,in sharino Texas there was a german pow camp where they worked in the pulp wood industry. on the weekends they would let them out to go to town(unsupervised),so they could go to the movies. the Robert e.lee was a passenger liner that the Germans sunk off the coast of Galveston. the thinking was that they did not want the u.s. population to panic but there were many German subs operating in the waters off the u.s. coast. about once a week tankers/cargo ships were sunk,,,,,,but after the war there were many pow camps in europe,,, https://www.google.com/search?q=lat...inship&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1 that did not end up in the u.s. news,,,, https://www.google.com/search?q=lat...inship&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
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I would appreciate some examples of such quoting, from you, not from a website.
most of the quotes(links) i posted were from the main google page,,i did that so there was a list of sites you could choose from,,,,
 
Dec 21, 2012
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Don't forget the Russian pogram slaughtering millions of Armenians.

Who did anything about that?
did they ever get the "right" to call it genocide?
It was the Turks not the Russians. I have one Armenian great-grandparent so I'm unhappy about this:

Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Despite his previous public recognition and support of Genocide bills, as well as the election campaign promises to formally recognize the Armenian Genocide,[194] the U.S. President, Barack Obama, although repeating that his views on the issue have not changed, has thus far abstained from using the term "genocide".[195] On 24 April commemoration speeches President Obama has yet referred to the Armenian Genocide only by the Armenian synonym Metz Eghern ("Mec Eġeṙn")."


In this case, the Germans admitted what they did and the Turks didn't. Europe is still making Turkey pay for that--they'll never be allowed to join the EU and I'm pretty sure that their continued genocide denial has a lot to do with that.

Turkey Frustrated Over Stalled EU Membership Bid

 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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From what and how I understand the cited passages from Isaiah, I can only ascertain in spirit and truth that this is a different Babel and different Children of Israel, this time both flocks together are being brought back to Yahweh, and Satan will have been finally done away with, but this is my honest understanding, not an understanding from history.

I believe this to be allegorical or even a parable. Yahweh bless you always...............again this is how I understand this, and I write nothing in stone, but my heart bears this as a revelation, and it is joyous.


These were fulfilled in the return from exile and the fall of Babylon.