Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

[SarahM777]

Zone, be careful, Thousands of people were saved as a result, the Assembly of God is a result and the Church of God, and the church of God in Christ, and the full Gospel church and the four square church and the congregational holiness church. The fruit of that revival points to an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Was Smiths wigglesworth demon possessed? A.A. Allen? Spurgeon, C.M. Ward? How bout the founders of TBN. Their fruit shows other wise.

UMM But shouldn't they also not be having men and women on there that claim to speak to the dead? (TBN) What did the Lord say about that? When did the Lord ever say that was OK and was now from Him?

Deuteronomy 18 NIV

9 When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitatethe detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery,interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord; because of these same detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the Lord your God.

KJV

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord:


TBN allows both Benny Hinn,Perry Stone,and Stone's father to continue to be on there,yet all three have claimed to have gotten dreams,visions,and words from DEAD PEOPLE. IS the Lord clear
when He says those who consult the dead are an ABOMINATION before the Lord?

Isaiah 65



“I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’
2 All day long I have held out my hands
to an obstinate people,
who walk in ways not good,
pursuing their own imaginations—
3 a people who continually provoke me
to my very face,
offering sacrifices in gardens
and burning incense on altars of brick;
4 who sit among the graves
and spend their nights keeping secret vigil;
who eat the flesh of pigs,
and whose pots hold broth of impure meat;
5 who say, ‘Keep away; don’t come near me,
for I am too sacred for you!’
Such people are smoke in my nostrils,
a fire that keeps burning all day.







Is the Lord clear or not about speaking to the dead and sitting among the graves? Is that not a clear plumb line?

Benny Hinn says he goes to the graves of both Aimee McPhearson's and Kathryn Kuhlman's graves to receive the anoiting. He has claimed that it is still in their graves. He claims he gets messages from them. He speaks in tongues also. He does signs. But again what is his source? Is the Lord clear about speaking to the dead or not?

Those are the types of stuff that is on TBN. So again is that what you are seeing truly from the Lord or is the Lord clear that many of them are false?

 

[RickShafer]

Benny Hinn says he goes to the graves of both Aimee McPhearson's and Kathryn Kuhlman's graves to receive the anointing.

Well....guess what......Benny Hinn isn't the Holy Spirit.
That's like saying - "Oh....Hitler was a Lutheran and he had all of those Jews killed....what a schmilcus!"

Listen, Benny Hinn is him.....Benny Hinn. Don't go around saying he is the Holy Spirit or the voice of God,....BECAUSE HE IS NOT.
- - He is the voice of Benny Hinn.

 

[SarahM777]

Benny Hinn says he goes to the graves of both Aimee McPhearson's and Kathryn Kuhlman's graves to receive the anointing.

Well....guess what......Benny Hinn isn't the Holy Spirit.
That's like saying - "Oh....Hitler was a Lutheran and he had all of those Jews killed....what a schmilcus!"

Listen, Benny Hinn is him.....Benny Hinn. Don't go around saying he is the Holy Spirit or the voice of God,....BECAUSE HE IS NOT.
- - He is the voice of Benny Hinn.

I didn't say that he is the Holy Spirit or the voice of God,but from what the Bible says is Hinn from God or not? Is the source of what he does from the Holy Spirit or elsewhere? Is the spirits moving through Hinn from God or not? That is what we are to test.

 

[RickShafer]

I didn't say that he is the Holy Spirit or the voice of God,but from what the Bible says is Hinn from God or not? Is the source of what he does from the Holy Spirit or elsewhere? Is the spirits moving through Hinn from God or not? That is what we are to test.

Listen, I will not judge another.
I've had experiences with his ministry that I will not share.
Why not? - Because they are not cogent to the argument.
- - And they are not all good or all bad...he is just a man. When he claims to be a god - - you tell me Sarah. (He hasn't yet)

 

[SarahM777]

Listen, I will not judge another.
I've had experiences with his ministry that I will not share.
Why not? - Because they are not cogent to the argument.
- - And they are not all good or all bad...he is just a man. When he claims to be a god - - you tell me Sarah. (He hasn't yet)

But Rick what is the plumb line on which we are to stand to test when one is a false teacher or not?

 

[SarahM777]

are they said to have faith the whole while He performed signs and wonders and provided for them in the Exodus from Egypt?

Romans 9
16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

and why is God empowering Elijah to perform great miracles and signs...when he said:

Romans 11:3
2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." 4But what is the divine response to him? "I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."

did the lack of faith clearly foreseen by God stop Jesus from coming and performing miracles?
no.

miracles and signs do not inspire faith in the multitudes.
the need for more signs is always asked for.

FAITH is the point.

See and what else gets left out in this is that Jesus did not just do the miracles,Jesus also at the same time pointed back to the written scriptures. He kept pointing them back to what Moses and the Prophets had written and pointed them to the fact that it was THE SCRIPTURES that testified about Him.

 

[RickShafer]

But Rick what is the plumb line on which we are to stand to test when one is a false teacher or not?

Sarah, I love you.
But you must not mix material witness with the scripture.
All of the truths of God are written there(in the scripture).
See I Cor. 12:4-14.
What? They are completed?
We are seeing Jesus face to face?
All questions are answered in scripture.

 

[SarahM777]

Sarah, I love you.
But you must not mix material witness with the scripture.
All of the truths of God are written there(in the scripture).
See I Cor. 12:4-14.
What? They are completed?
We are seeing Jesus face to face?
All questions are answered in scripture.

Rick,
I love you too,but I am worried about you at the moment. Some of this stuff is very scary ground to be on. Please does God say that His teachers can be on one hand talking with demons (Talking with the dead) and also at the same time saying it's from God? Can one do both? Or does the scriptures say otherwise?

 

[homwardbound]

oh puleeze. you don't seem to remember what you post from one day to the next home.
take a look at your first post

~

"so can you please be clear on this, and state this each time that you know tongues are real from God and can be displayed by God still to this very day."

i state clearly tongues are real LANGUAGES, since that's what they WERE.

they CAN be displayed by God to this day, if that is His intent.

can you find that He is doing that today? i haven't yet....

which is in perfect keeping with what the Gospels and Acts and the epistles state.

this is a serious matter, home.
gravely serious.

stop acting like you are getting "stripes" on an internet forum discussion board(from the comfort of your den or wherever you are) - another example of how people today DEGRADE what stripes were, and are, and the ppl who really got and get them....like Paul here (not to mention Jesus...how dare you incidentally):

2 Corinthians 11:25
Paul's Sufferings and Service
24Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. 26I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;

How dare me what? preach God's amazing Gospel, that God can do whatever God wants, whenever God wants?
Yes how dare me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[homwardbound]

i would assume you would know what's fake and what isn't.
The Spirit of Truth ought to be testifying to that.

God in a box?

*cough*

God placed Himself "in a box" when HE PLANNED how things would go.

you think maybe people today are trying to drag God out of HIS OWN "box" (concerning Christ's 12/discples and their witness and power - now the NEW TESTAMENT)....and make HIM do things He isn't doing and didn't say He would do?

the God in a box thing is lame. and dangerous.

Okay, then to each their own, Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and she goes on and on with God is not available to this day and denies the gifts of God and from God, even though there are ones that are fake and these are the ones of the flesh, and have not agreed with God to die to self with Christ, buried with him in Baptism, dead to the self and world, and made alive to God through the death in God's Spirit, which today is the only way God is worshipped.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So what is born again?

 

[homwardbound]

How do you tell the difference? You seem to know.

If it is of God through Christ, for this is the way we are spoken to today.
If God is not getting all the credit 100% then there is a problem

 

[homwardbound]

The forerunners, and even the followers who claim what the forerunners do, as far as prophecy and tongues, are easily debunked by scripture. I'm sorry you can't see that. This is a serious matter.

Really, no the serious matter is to either believe God or not as in the death burial and resurrection for you, to be born again in the Spirit of God is the eternal matter. All else is trivial. Because I know if God has received you, me or anyone else it is God that:
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 

[RickShafer]

Rick,
I love you too,but I am worried about you at the moment. Some of this stuff is very scary ground to be on. Please does God say that His teachers can be on one hand talking with demons (Talking with the dead) and also at the same time saying it's from God? Can one do both? Or does the scriptures say otherwise?

No...Samuel was called up for a very specific reason......
No exorcist ever talks to the demons, we tell them to flee.
There are no 'dead' being talked to, if someone is saying - "I'm in touch with your father and he wore a big brown hat and he says he loves you"; that is a necromancer, and that person is talking to demons.
See, certain demons know what certain people were like, because they lived by them.
So a demon can say- 'such and such' because it either observed, or knew that person.
- This has nothing to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. God is not a god of the dead, but of the living.

 

[SarahM777]

No...Samuel was called up for a very specific reason......
No exorcist ever talks to the demons, we tell them to flee.
There are no 'dead' being talked to, if someone is saying - "I'm in touch with your father and he wore a big brown hat and he says he loves you"; that is a necromancer, and that person is talking to demons.
See, certain demons know what certain people were like, because they lived by them.
So a demon can say- 'such and such' because it either observed, or knew that person.
- This has nothing to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. God is not a god of the dead, but of the living.

No problem on that but the thing is Benny Hinn claims to still speak with Kathryn Kuhlman,she died in 1976. So who is he talking to when he talks to Kuhlman?

 

[homwardbound]

.

The big question is - how do we know? How do you know? Can this question even be answered?

[h=3]Hebrews 1[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, [SUP]2 [/SUP]hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; [SUP]3 [/SUP]who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; [SUP]4 [/SUP]being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? [SUP]6 [/SUP]And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: [SUP]11 [/SUP]they shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; [SUP]12 [/SUP]and as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Now who did Christ send to us:


[h=3]John 16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

16 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. [SUP]2 [/SUP]They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? [SUP]6 [/SUP]But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]of sin, because they believe not on me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; [SUP]11 [/SUP]of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


[SUP]12 [/SUP]I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Now as I hear some saying that this is over that we do not receive the truth from God, that this was only for the Disciples. Is this truth:
How can this be when God is our what teacher, our hidden man inside Hebrews 8 God being out Teacher, Romans 7 Hidden man of the heart that is where we serve God.
And all credit goes to God and God only through Christ. If not it is not of God
That is how the believer discerns truth being one in God by the Spirit of God, Born again
What worships God, flesh or Spirit of God? So do we have to be born again to hear God and see the kingdom? Dead to flesh nature, have a heart transplant from God by the resurrected Christ.
Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1 Peter 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Hope you are listening

 

[homwardbound]

The point is, scripture does not back up what we see today.

Also, most, if not all, of the founders and forerunners of these types of movements have been debunked with failed prophecy. This being true, why would anyone in their right mind keep following in their wake? The biblical warnings about this are eternally severe.

not being born again is what is eternally severe, so let us decide to continue to be of the flesh or born again of the Spirit of God by God.
This takes asking God to do what we can't do in and of self.

 

[homwardbound]

when the church matured enough to do without childish things and partial gifts...to obey the simple Gospel; turn from sin and make disciples.

that boring stuff.

the Divine Spirit & the God-Breathed Scriptures have been cast aside for second rate somethings.
what has that to do with maturity? is it the Lord's fault people like getting drunk in the spirit(s)?


1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.

go ahead and rehash what you think is my "case".

when you're done, produce anything approaching what i read of in Acts.
i'll wait (not)

If you are mature in Christ then you will and do walk as he walked
I do thank God though that so if I do sin I have Jesus Christ the righteous that has covered past tense my sin
[h=3]1 John 2[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [SUP]2 [/SUP]and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

So I hear you say many times that you still sin and are going to continue to, each day every day if I remember right do I?
If so where is this maturity you just spoke of.
And I am not claiming "I" do not sin, "I" claim Christ, the Holy Ghost and Father do not, and since I knokiw by Father in Baptism of the Holy Ghost. "I" am dead to sin as scripture calls for.
It is an exchanged life my life for his life. Paul clear on this

[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Maturity is through belief in being dead to self co-crucified with Christ at the death at the cross,

 

[SarahM777]

No problem on that but the thing is Benny Hinn claims to still speak with Kathryn Kuhlman,she died in 1976. So who is he talking to when he talks to Kuhlman?

And then taking it a bit further,knowing what God told about speaking to the dead,then what should be the next question? If he is getting information from demons (Which speaking to the dead is) then what is his source of speaking in tongues? or any of the rest that he is doing? Can one if they are being honest say that it is from the Lord when He is so clear about speaking to the dead?

 

[homwardbound]

But Rick what is the plumb line on which we are to stand to test when one is a false teacher or not?

maybe we should study ourselves to be approved instead of going to mankind? HMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! could be the answer I wonder. If we do take care of our own board in our own eye first, then might we know the truth and the truth set us free to be one with God in God and only for God, letting others alone and loving them to the truth as all that do believe will know the truth as God has said this has God not?

 

[SarahM777]

maybe we should study ourselves to be approved instead of going to mankind? HMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! could be the answer I wonder. If we do take care of our own board in our own eye first, then might we know the truth and the truth set us free to be one with God in God and only for God, letting others alone and loving them to the truth as all that do believe will know the truth as God has said this has God not?

UMMM Where did God say that if we love someone that we are to turn a blind eye when they are listening to false teachers? Or are we to point out those errors?