To understand verse Romans 11:25 properly you have to take all Paul said into account:
(1) It had been established in chapter 10 that Paul was upset that the Gentiles lacked zeal to preach to his fleshly relatives, asking them "How will they here without someone to preach?"
(2) Verse 1 shows the Gentiles being affected by the Jews persecution of them had caused them to act as though all the remaining Jews yet outside of Christ must have been completely cast off.
(3) Verses 2-5 argues that it is no different than in Elias day, that there is yet a remnant of them still out there. Only a remnant yet out there.
(4) Verses 6-11 shows that God did not take the full remnant all at once but was bringing that remnant in gradually so that the Gentiles could be benefited by being used to help bring the remainder of that remnant in.
(5) Verse 14 shows Paul was not speaking of all Jews yet out there being save, but only some, as in the remaining part of the remnant of them, just as in the days of Elias. (Compare Romans 10:1 showing Paul only hoped they might be saved.)
(6) Verse 15 Paul argues that the fulness of that remaining remnant yet out there is valuable to God, even as all human life from the dead even of the gentiles is.
(7) Verse 16 Paul argues that if the firstfruits of that remnant be holy to God then the entire lump of that remnant yet out there must also be holy to God. (That gets missed to apply to all as in the entire Israel but that idea jumps from Paul's theme arguing for the remnant yet out there. We must stick with Paul's theme and his theme is that just as in Elias day there is yet part of a remnant still out there, even as Elias was the first part of that remnant back in his day and more of a remnant remained out there.)
(8) Verses 17-24 merely warns the Gentiles to not be so high minded because God could cut them back off that tree, as in permanently and revert back to only saving a remnant of those Jews rather than a remnant of both Jews and Gentiles.
(9) Verse 25, which actually says when properly translated and understood, Stop making this out as something mysterious in your ignorance. It is no mystery. That remaining part of that remnant which is yet out there, will be out there as it is being brought in along with the fulness of the Gentiles being brought in.
(10) Verse 26-31 (as compared to what Paul said at Romans 9: 6-15) is only telling us that remnant of all who are really Israel by the election of God (not of flesh) will be saved just as it was prophesied that remnant would be. It has never been prophesied that all would be saved which is why Paul clearly said he hoped to save some of them in verse 14. It is false doctrine that claims God ever said all Israel as in all Israel by flesh would be saved. And it the spirit of the Synagogue of Satan per Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 which has infiltrated that idea into the church.
(11) Verse 32 says, Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them [as in the remaining part of that remnant] all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all [of the remnant of both Jews and gentiles yet out there.].
Them is a word added by the translator in verse 32 and actually says, Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." Which is the same exact thing Paul spoke of at Galatians 3:22. Read the entire Galatians chapter 3 and you will see all he meant at Romans 11:32.
I have been staying strictly to the scriptures with them all the way through our discussion. crossnote has injected opinion all over the place and has not stayed by scripture. He blasphemes Abraham and Paul in his opinions which go way outside of scripture, touting that Abraham had no faith before God approached him the way that the wicked generation of Jews back then demanded a sign before they could have faith. He is saying that is what Abraham did and blaspheming Abraham.
And he claims that Paul had not faith in God before his conversion on the road to Damascus. That is a blasphemy by missed understanding. You guys have mistaken faith in Christ with faith in the Father. It was on the basis of true faith in the Father that Abel was remembered and that Noah and his family was saved. Abraham's faith was in the Father. The Promises were given upon faith in the Father not upon faith in the seed that is Jesus and everyone has missed that, transferring that faith all over to Jesus who was back when the promises were made only the seed, the thing promised of God the Father and faith was in the word of the Father that God cannot lie.
And Paul had that. He lacked yet fully understanding the thing promised but his faith in God was strong.
Please grasp this and help me break this reign of the synagogue of Satan in the church. We need to educate ourselves so we can bring them to their knees.
So bottom line either works of the Human flesh or the works of God throguh the Spirit
Ao let us all look at our own Zeal and see if we are misled from truth that is only found in God's Spirit
Saul had a great Zeal and became transformed and learned all a new.
Had to so to speak look at a chalk board with an eraser on it and chalk. The board was full of Saul's life all he did from borth on to this day that he was missing in the Arabian Desert.
And god said to Saul see the chalk board and all that is written on it, Saul replies yes this is my whole past olife back to birth.
God says take that eraser and erase all that past life and I (God) will teach you new life,
Erase and start writiing all anew. I wonder do you think we all might need to take a deeper look, about Paul, because Paul was taught from behind the cloud, Jesus Christ himself, all I can do is ask and stand in Faith for God to show each of us the amazing truth
Paul counted all he did prior as dung
[h=3]Philippians 3:7-11[/h]New International Version (NIV)
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7 [/SUP]But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. [SUP]
8 [/SUP]What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ [SUP]
9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. [SUP]
10 [/SUP]I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [SUP]
11 [/SUP]and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.
[h=3]Galatians 2[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[h=3]Paul Accepted by the Apostles[/h]2 Then after fourteen years, I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. [SUP]
2 [/SUP]I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain. [SUP]
3 [/SUP]Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. [SUP]
4 [/SUP]This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. [SUP]
5 [/SUP]We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
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6 [/SUP]As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message. [SUP]
7 [/SUP]On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. [SUP]
8 [/SUP]For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. [SUP]
9 [/SUP]James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. [SUP]
10 [/SUP]All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.