The 10 Commandments

WithinReason · Nov 15, 2020

mailmandan said:

Corrected.

Colossians 2 has nothing to say about the 4th Commandment:

Complete Powerpoint (which includes part 4):
https://archive.org/download/colossians-2vs-16/Colossians 2vs16.pptx

WithinReason · Nov 15, 2020

mailmandan said:

Indeed:

mailmandan · Nov 15, 2020

WithinReason said:

Not corrected at all. Colossians 2 certainly does have something to say about the 4th Commandment and I have no interest in your SDA propaganda.

Colossians 2:16 is not merely talking about "ceremonial sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint. Paul's reasoning is obvious.

Let no one judge you regarding a, festival (yearly sabbaths), a new moon (monthly sabbaths) or a sabbath day (weekly sabbath - or sabbath days)." CHRIST is the "substance" and these things are the shadows. In Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed: "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."

Verse 10 states, "you observe...", days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "sabbath days in Colossians 2) months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Colossians 2) seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Colossians 2) and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee).

*Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy days, including the weekly sabbath.

Truth7t7 · Nov 15, 2020

mailmandan said:

That simple, huh? You still have not explained to me exactly how you keep the sabbath day and you still have not shown me under the new covenant where Christians are commanded to keep the sabbath. So you assume that whenever the Bible mentions "commandments" in the New Testament is always refers to the 10 commandments under the law of Moses?

Since the old covenant law has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

The best way to interpret the meaning of John's writings is to compare them with the other writings of John. The Greek word for "commandments" in Rev. 14:12 is entole which means "an order, command, charge, precept, injunction." 20 The same word is used repeatedly in the writings of John to refer to the instructions of Christ. John uses an entirely different Greek word in his writings when he refers to the Ten Commandments: nomas. For example:

Did not Moses give you the law {nomos}, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law {nomos}? Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19; Jesus is referring to the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill"--Ex. 20:13) According to John, the number one commandment {entolae} of Jesus to the Apostles was not Sabbath-worship, but for them to love one another:

A new commandment {entolae} I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34) This is my commandment {entolae}, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12)

Notice how John refers to the "commandments" of God in his letter: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments {entolas}. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments {entolas}; and His commandments {entolae} are not burdensome. (1 John 5:2-3)

Earlier in the same letter John tells us exactly what the "commandments" of God are: Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His [God's] commandments {entolas} and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

This is His [God's] commandment {entolae}, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He [God] commanded {entolaen} us. The one who keeps His [God's] commandments {entolas} abides in Him,... (1 John 3:21-24)

From this we can see that in John's writings the "commandments" of God are:

To believe in Jesus Christ
To love one another

What are the "Commandments of God"? The whole teaching of Adventists regarding the Mark of the Beast centers on Revelation 14:12 which says that those who have the "commandments of God" do not receive the mark. Adventists claim that this passage is referring to the Ten Commandments, and Sunday-keepers cannot be keeping the Ten Commandments because the Fourth Commandment instructs worship on Saturday.

https://nonsda.org/study8.shtml

Those who kept the Sabbath and New Moons were judged in Colossians below , it was written in support of the Sabbath keepers.

The Sabbath and New Moons are (Eternal) a shadow of things to come,if you plan on being in the Eternal kingdom, better get use to the Lords Sabbath

Colossians 2:6-17KJV
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Isaiah 66:22-23KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Grandpa · Nov 15, 2020

This whole thread has been kind of entertaining and humorous.

But kind of sad too.

Has anyone here been Saved??? Were you saved because you kept the law? (Gal 3:3)

You were saved (hopefully) by Grace through Faith and not of your own work. Congratulations!!! You have found Gods Way!!

Are you so foolish to go back to your own way now? Probably. Lots of dummies out there.

If you know Salvation is a gift given By God how do you not know that Righteousness is also His Gift? How do you not know that Wisdom is Gods Gift? Sanctification? Obedience?

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

I don't think one person can give another person understanding of what God does for us. It can only be given by God. Other people can only remind you of what God has already done and suggest God has More for You.

Blik · Nov 15, 2020

mailmandan said:

People who heavily push sabbath keeping for Christians under the new covenant who say they believe that Christians are not under law for salvation could have fooled me. I've witnessed numerous sabbatarians over the years on various Christian forums (SDA's in particular) make a similar claim, but end up teaching "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." Here is a statement from a former member of Christian Chat who clearly taught "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works."

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

Christians have faith in all the Lord says, which does not mean that Christians are under old covenant law.

Where in Genesis 2:3 did the Lord tell us to rest, also? Although God's rest on the seventh day did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.* The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23- Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.

God's word makes it clear that sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17).

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the 10 Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).

*Nowhere in the New Testament is the Church commanded to keep the weekly Sabbath day and to the contrary we find (Colossians 2:16-17).

I've been harshly judged numerous times over the years by SDA's and also by those who attend the Worldwide church of Christ (Armstrongism) for not believing that keeping the sabbath day is binding on Christians under the new covenant. Judged to the point of being told that if I continue to work (deliver mail) on Saturday, then my salvation will be in jeapardy.

Although the Pharisees added rules and regulations beyond what God’s law said, nonetheless, there were still rules and regulations that went along with keeping the sabbath under old covenant law, as I already explained in post #77.

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter. "No one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins." (Luke 5:37-38).

You need to get your facts straight and not falsely accuse. No Christian says it is obedience to law that results in salvation and your false accusation labels you as acting in a most unchristian way.

If a Christian points out that the ten commandments do much to explain the spirit of the law, they are not purely the letter of the law, that does not mean that they believe in the letter of the law as you, in a very unchristian like way, are saying.

You are flaunting the ways of the lord with your false accusations. Bearing false witness is against both the commandments written in stone and commandments written in our hearts.

laymen · Nov 15, 2020

mailmandan said:

The interesting thing about the 7th day Sabbath is it was there before "sin" at creation(Gen1-2). Then the book of (lev 23:37-38) tells us that all the ceremonial laws were an addition to the 7th day commandment.
The earliest account of the Sabbath after Creation we have in (Ex 5:4) Shows us that the 7th day was there from Creation all the way up, just right before the Exodus.

The People had forgotten the Sabbath from being in Egypt so long so(as has the rest of Christianity) God had to remind them of everything including the Sabbath which he did first before the Exodus, adding the Ceremonial laws to it by using Moses and the help of angles( Gal 3:19)

Col 2:16 "Sabbaths" used in plural here to denote the ceremonial Sabbaths. You do not find anywhere in the NT an example of People being opposed for keeping the 7th day Sabbath, only ceremonial sabbath's. Only this verse and one other I believe talk about the ceremonial sabbaths. But you did not see people being judged for keeping the 7th day Sabbath you see quite the opposite you see people keeping the Sabbath and not keeping the ceremonial Sabbaths.

Plus if your calling the 7th day Sabbath a shadow of Christ, we can see from Creation the 7th day was before sin so the Sabbath day can not be a shadow of Christ only a marker of who the Creator is.

This first 4 Commandments tell us a few things on how to love God and who we are loving.

Who God "is" with the 7th day Sabbath =Creator
And that he comes first!

The last part of the 10 Commandments tell us how to love man.

So if you uphold all 10 and not just 9 you will know who and how to Love God first and how to Love man.

I mean you can sit there and worship a God first but if you take away the 4th commandment you can apply any God but the Sabbath tells witch God to follow.

Jesus tells us today in the Gospels that the Sabbath was made for man (mankind) not just Jews.(Mark 2:27) <<That tells me that it is still in-effect today. Not to mention the examples we have in the NT of both Jews and Greeks keeping that day.

Wall · Nov 15, 2020

mailmandan said:

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days. Its speaking of those who observe times.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 15, 2020

Wall said:

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days. Its speaking of those who observe times.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

I am sure God will be so proud of you and tell you how awesome you were to be so righteous he must let you into heaven

Ogom · Nov 15, 2020

Grandpa said:

Christians can help build up other Christians and help teach others many things from the Word. the Sabbath being very much a part of the Word of God.

you cannot give another person understanding, this is true, but you can help other people of Christ in many many ways. are we the Body of Christ, or 1 person of Christ - all on our own?

laymen · Nov 15, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

Ogom · Nov 15, 2020

Blik said:

no, i don't want to change anything good.

but this is what we must give up, become to really follow Christ:

Luke 14:

25 A large crowd was following Jesus. He turned around and said to them,

26 “If you want to be my disciple, you must, by comparison, hate everyone else—your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life.

Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple.

27 And if you do not carry your own cross and follow me, you cannot be my disciple.

28 “But don’t begin until you count the cost. For who would begin construction of a building without first calculating the cost to see if there is enough money to finish it?

29 Otherwise, you might complete only the foundation before running out of money, and then everyone would laugh at you.

30 They would say, ‘There’s the person who started that building and couldn’t afford to finish it!’

the Christians here you are trying to convince, have they ever picked up their own Cross and followed Christ? and how much have they? Christ is the the Way and the Truth and the Life.

those really picking up their cross or who have in the past even and know about really following Christ should love Truth. if it hangs on one thing in the NT, how scant is that? and how important not to lie to others (thou shalt not bear false witness).

but you must begin to see everything that is false in yourself, in life, in doctrines, in men's teachings, in everything. you must want to be true, be real, be good, do right, walk in truth, think in truth.

that is Christ.

Duskey · Nov 15, 2020

Blik said:

I reiterate, if you believe you’re saved through honoring the Sabbath then I’m happy for you. As for me, I’ll stick with having faith in Jesus Christ.

Duskey · Nov 15, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

I reiterate, if you believe you’re saved through honoring the Sabbath then I’m happy for you. As for me, I’ll stick with having faith in Jesus Christ.

Truth7t7 · Nov 15, 2020

Blik said:

Keeping the Sabbath dosent save,Duskey is correct

Truth7t7 · Nov 15, 2020

Duskey said:

I dont believe the Sabbath is a means of salvation, it's a commandment, the same as dont kill or steal

Duskey · Nov 15, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

If you give one day through and through, completely to the Lord, do you honestly believe it matters to God which day you choose?

Dino246 · Nov 15, 2020

Blik said:

What "facts" do you consider incorrect, and on what authority? What, specifically, do you consider to be a "false accusation" in his post?

Blik said:

Where, specifically, is the false witness in his post? You accuse him, but without stating your issue specifically, your accusation is no better.

By the way, the word is "flouting", not "flaunting". Flaunting is showing off. Flouting is blatantly ignoring.

Truth7t7 · Nov 15, 2020

Duskey said:

I choose the Lords Sabbath over Constatines Sunday, yes I believe it matters to honor this day

Has the secular world built society around Constatines Sunday?

Absolutely, government buildings are closed, business hours are shorter, all in recognition to Sunday

Many states still have (blue laws) on the books

Many non biblical observance has entered the church by way of Rome, Easter, Christmas, and Sunday

Is it ok if I choose the Sabbath, is it ok to voice Gods instruction concerning his Sabbath?

Wikipedia: Blue laws, also known as Sunday laws, are laws designed to restrict or ban some or all Sunday activities for religious or secular reasons, particularly to promote the observance of a day of worship or rest. Blue laws may also restrict shopping or ban sale of certain items on specific days, most often on Sundays in the western world. Blue laws are enforced in parts of the United States and Canada as well as some European countries, particularly in Austria, Germany, Switzerland, and Norway, keeping most stores closed on Sundays.

The very first known law regarding prohibition of Sunday labor for religious reasons was in 321 AD, by Emperor Constantine.[5]

On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.

— Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3

Blik · Nov 15, 2020

Ogom said:

If you follow Christ, and not your own ideas, then you follow scripture for Christ is in scripture.

Genesis 2:2
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Exodus 34: 21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

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