Saved by Water

[HisKid]

Yep.. lol I changed the order for replies based on what stood out the most.

WOW that's powerful. And we know they didn't like hearing stuff like that...Stuff like "even though you believe to some degree, there is more that you need to submit to if you want to escape damnation". (John 8:30-47). Verse 47 is especially interesting because to those whom the bible in verse 31 describes as "those Jews that believed on him" Jesus says "ye are not of God", and in verse 44 "Ye are of your father the devil".

I'm sure you'll also appreciate that this verse about "who you really belong to" is in a chapter highlighting the importance of baptism

Romans 6:16 KJV​

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"​

I notice that it doesn't state whether he did or didn't baptize them. Plus, if he only said that when MANY of that type were gathered together, that implies that he'd already allowed a few others to pass through. So I'm still of the opinion that he would have gone ahead and baptized them. I THINK he's saying "I can wash you, but if internally you are still a swine, you'll go right back to the behavior of a swine". It seems to me that he is trying very hard to make it very clear that words and thoughts of belief weren't going to be enough if their behavior didn't change.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Matt 3:7-9
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

If it isn't painfully clear enough to you at this point, your tag-team with Wansvic has failed.

 

[KelbyofGod]

I'm still waiting to hear of your judgment of those who were baptized before Jesus was crucified. Were they duped and are now in hell? By your own admission, the baptism is of none effect unless it was after the resurrection.

That's not what I said. I said that the thief was still under the old rules.

Baptism started accomplishing what it was intended to accomplish as soon as it was set in motion by God and through John the baptist. That means that baptism was allowed to start working even within the old system. That's an interesting concept that I was kind of hoping we (people in the forum) would eventually be able to discuss. However, I've been at the computer most of the day and need to get a few things accomplished before I fall asleep.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[HisKid]

That's not what I said. I said that the thief was still under the old rules.

Baptism started accomplishing what it was intended to accomplish as soon as it was set in motion by God and through John the baptist. That means that baptism was allowed to start working even within the old system. That's an interesting concept that I was kind of hoping we (people in the forum) would eventually be able to discuss. However, I've been at the computer most of the day and need to get a few things accomplished before I fall asleep.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

You should take your show on the road. It is definitely hellyweird bound.

 

[KelbyofGod]

And?

Please see post #439. (easier than retyping)

 

[KelbyofGod]

smh

What does that mean?

 

[HisKid]

What does that mean?

shaking my head

 

[KelbyofGod]

shaking my head

thanks

 

[HisKid]

I find it amazing that people refuse to just accept what God's word says. Period.

Nobody here is refusing to accept God's word. They are refusing to accept your word. You and your sidekick should move on to better adventures.
.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please see post #439. (easier than retyping)

It does not change a thing

You got wet by some man baptizing you in water

I Got born again by God baptizing me into the death, burial of Christ (rom 6) Into Christ (Gal 3) and into the Body of Christ (1 cor 12) I was cleansed with the circumcision not made by the hands of men, but the hands of God through the Baptism performed By God himself. and I was saved, Not by my own works of righteousness (like physical baptism) But by Gods mercy. Because he washed me and gave me new birth (titus 3)

post 439?

Yes, seriously. The fact that the bible was physically written BY man does NOT take a single bit of authority from it. But IF EternallyGrateful's argument that "If the physical act is done by Man, then it Doesn't carry the power of God" (paraphrased) were true (It's not), THEN it would have to apply to the bible as well because the physical writing was performed by a MAN just as truly as baptism in water is performed by man.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

This post does not negate anything I have said above.

You were BAPTISED BY MAN

I was baptised BY GOD

Huge difference.

I pray you see this difference and stop trusting in man and start trusting in God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As was shown earlier, and is surprising to find out...

That same thief on the cross (who indeed made it into heaven) also didn't believe the Gospel that includes that God raised Jesus from the dead (because that hadn't happened yet) and also didn't receive the Holy Ghost (because it hadn't been poured out yet, because Jesus hadn't gone to the Father yet.) The Thief on the cross was still under the OLD covenant, not the new.

Kind of amazing to think about.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

He was saved the same way everyone was

By Faith in God

We are saved by Faith

Abraham was saved by Faith

You however, seem to think your saved by Baptism. Really no different than the jew. Who thought he was saved by circumcision.

Both traditions and commands of God represent being cleansed. Both point to christ Sadly, many who call themselves of God rely on the physical act done by the hands of man, . Not the spiritual act performed by the hands of God the physical Is pointing too

 

[eternally-gratefull]

shaking my head

We can almost feel what paul went through with the jews

 

[Kidron]

When the Bible says the devil "deceives the whole world" and "leads the whole world astray", it isn't kidding!!

The devil blinds minds.
This is "deception". He causes a person to believe what isn't true, and so for them, this is mind blindness.

 

[Kidron]

Thanks for being willing to ask the question again/

In part I believe he told us that to highlight that different people have different callings... also that it doesn't matter which man of God baptized them because it is submitting to the WORD, not the man that matters. It seems they had division over WHO baptized them, as if that made some more 'Christian' than others.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Actually Paul was making a distinction.. He was showing us the important part of ministry, of truth, regarding the Gospel.
Paul taught this...."My Gospel"....
This isn't "be baptized in water"......as that was John the Baptist, in the old Covenant, dealing with Jews.
None of them were born again, by getting in the water with John the Baptist.
Do you realize this?....

Paul taught "justification by Faith", not justification by water.
Water cults teach that Cross denying heresy.

You can be water baptized and go to hell. Thousands do every day.
You can't be born again and go to Hell, as when are born again, you now exist as "ONE with God".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The devil blinds minds.
This is "deception". He causes a person to believe what isn't true, and so for them, this is mind blindness.

I do not think satan causes this, I think he recieves people. People cause themselves to believe the lie and follow satan.

I think paul in romans 1 explains why

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually Paul was making a distinction.. He was showing us the important part of ministry, of truth, regarding the Gospel.
Paul taught this...."My Gospel"....
This isn't "be baptized in water"......as that was John the Baptist, in the old Covenant, dealing with Jews.
None of them were born again, by getting in the water with John the Baptist.
Do you realize this?....

Paul taught "justification by Faith", not justification by water.
Water cults teach that Cross denying heresy.

You can be water baptized and go to hell. Thousands do every day.
You can't be born again and go to Hell, as when are born again, you now exist as "ONE with God".

Thats because you are born of God.

Not of water

 

[Kidron]

I do not think satan causes this, I think he recieves people. People cause themselves to believe the lie and follow satan.
I think paul in romans 1 explains why

Jesus said that Satan is the Father of the Lie.
"lying" is of the Devil,.........His nature is lying, and lust, and hate, and rebellion.

""""In whom the god of this world (satan) hath blinded the minds of people which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.""""

His "ministers", sound like christians. That is how they deceive you.
They talk about "Christian stuff", and they look nice in church, and they smile at you from the Pulpit, while they deny Christ on the Cross, by trying to replace Him with Water and WORKS.

 

[Kidron]

Thats because you are born of God.

Not of water

YES.

"Spiritual Baptism", is the Holy Spirit giving BIRTH to our spirit, that causes us to be born again as a "new Creation"..."in Christ".

 

[Gideon300]

I was making the point that water has never saved anyone. People are saved FROM water, like in Noah's day and the Israelites walking THROUGH the Red Sea on DRY GROUND. It was the Egyptian army that were immersed in the sea and were killed. All of them.

Paul even used that event in 1 Cor 10 using the word 'baptized'.

1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

v.1 shows that the Jews passed THROUGH water.
v.2 shows they were baptized INTO: Moses, the cloud, and IN the sea. Yet, none got wet from ANY of these 3 things.
v.3 and 4 shows that they were all saved Jews. They believed in the Messiah.
v.5 shows that in spite of their being saved, most of them displeased God. So God applied divine discipline known as the "sin unto death" to those who were displeasing Him. See 1 John 5:16

Water baptism is a symbol (ritual) for being identified with Christ. 1 Pet 3:21
baptism in the sea is a real identification with Moses and God's protection. No water involved.

The baptism that saves is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8

The baptism that saves is being immersed in Christ. If people would use the correct translation, most of the confusion would never have arisen in the first place. Christians were saved THEN baptised in the Holy Spirit. God is not going to fill an unclean vessel.

First we need to be included in the death of Christ. God does that when we receive Christ. We must be rid of the old, dead spirit before we can receive a new one. We go down to the grave with Christ, then we are raised together with Him to new life. God immerses us in the Lord Jesus. If we will receive it, Lord Jesus immerses us in the Holy Spirit. Immersion (OK, baptism) in water is performed by people. You tell me which baptism God considers most important. Hint. It's not something that He entrusts to men.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The baptism that saves is being immersed in Christ.

From Eph 1:13, we are placed IN Christ. That's union with Christ. We aren't immersed in Him; we are IN Him.

If people would use the correct translation, most of the confusion would never have arisen in the first place. Christians were saved THEN baptised in the Holy Spirit. God is not going to fill an unclean vessel.

Salvation includes being placed in union with Christ, being born again, possessing eternal life, and being justified.

We must be rid of the old, dead spirit before we can receive a new one.

No, the "old spirit" is RE-born. Or RE-generated, just as the Bible says. It doesn't go away. Maybe you have confused our sin nature, which is in our soul with the human spirit, which we all are born with, but it is dead. That is exactly what happened to Adam and the woman on "that day" when they ate the forbidden fruit. Their human spirits died, and they no longer were able to approach God or fellowship with Him. That explains why they both hid when the Lord came in the evening.

When a spiritually dead person believes in Christ, their dead human spirit is quickened or made alive, per Eph 2.

We go down to the grave with Christ, then we are raised together with Him to new life. God immerses us in the Lord Jesus. If we will receive it, Lord Jesus immerses us in the Holy Spirit.

No, we are not "immersed in the Holy Spirit". This is very unbiblical language and concept. We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. He lives within us.

 

[Wansvic]

“Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-49‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/luk.24.47-49.ESV

The passage here in Luke 24 is where Jesus opened the minds of the apostles to understand what was written in the Prophets and Psalms. Later Peter reflects back on this and says:

“To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.10.43.ESV

Jesus' statement in Luke 24:47 lines up perfectly with the initial instructions given by Peter in Acts 2:38. People were told they must; Repent, and afterward be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus FOR the remission of sin.

The ESV translation you quote distorts what Jesus actually said. Upon examination of the verses below it is obvious that the KJV shows repentance and forgiveness of sin as separate processes. Whereas the ESV implies repentance produces the other in and of itself.


"And that repentance AND remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:47
KJV

"And that repentance FOR the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Luke 24:47 ESV