Let's Talk About Sin

[eternally-gratefull]

I feel ya EG, lol While we don't always agree I always find you kind and articulate,

Thank you sis. You also!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is what I see when I read it...

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
7. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
8. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
9. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
10. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

Chapter 2
1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
1. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
2. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
3. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
4. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
5. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
6. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

Yep still says the same

If we (including himself) say we have no sin we decieve ourselves

Do you believe him or will you continue to decieve yourself?

 

[biker]

Maybe we should tare those Scriptures that mention sin out of the Bible so we can continue to walk in our old man.

Maybe we should just be honest here. Even though we have an advocate, we still sin, even if we are given Grace for them!

 

[Chester]

I'm not writing about my flesh. I'm writing about the spirit of Christ. And in him is no sin. Here's a few more...

LOL! I know you are not writing about your flesh - but I asked you about your flesh, and evidently you do not want to answer - and that is fine - you do not have to. But your beating around the bush makes all your answers unclear and questionable to your responders!

As long as we live 100% by the Spirit of Christ in our new man (at the spirit level) we do not sin. Because Christ in us does not sin. But if I choose to follow my flesh at any moment in time I will sin. Every time I follow my flesh I will sin.

Old man (old nature) is what was changed when I was born again (it was crucified with Christ), but I still have the flesh. A big mistake many make is to say the old man/nature is the same thing as the flesh. They are very different. The old man/nature is who I was at a spirit level before I was saved. My flesh is what houses my spirit - and I as a believer am still in the flesh - though it need no longer control me!

 

[Peterlag]

LOL! I know you are not writing about your flesh - but I asked you about your flesh, and evidently you do not want to answer - and that is fine - you do not have to. But your beating around the bush makes all your answers unclear and questionable to your responders!

As long as we live 100% by the Spirit of Christ in our new man (at the spirit level) we do not sin. Because Christ in us does not sin. But if I choose to follow my flesh at any moment in time I will sin. Every time I follow my flesh I will sin.

Old man (old nature) is what was changed when I was born again (it was crucified with Christ), but I still have the flesh. A big mistake many make is to say the old man/nature is the same thing as the flesh. They are very different. The old man/nature is who I was at a spirit level before I was saved. My flesh is what houses my spirit - and I as a believer am still in the flesh - though it need no longer control me!

Just because you do not understand what I'm saying does not make me wrong. The Scriptures say...

How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

And I did not write the book.

 

[Peterlag]

Maybe we should just be honest here. Even though we have an advocate, we still sin, even if we are given Grace for them!

The Scriptures do not say what you say. Here's a few more. Are they all wrong?

How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[Peterlag]

Yep still says the same

If we (including himself) say we have no sin we decieve ourselves

Do you believe him or will you continue to decieve yourself?

Books are written that way and I also write the same way. I use we instead of you. I include myself and this is a very normal way to communicate when using the English writing skills.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Books are written that way and I also write the same way. I use we instead of you. I include myself and this is a very normal way to communicate when using the English writing skills.

if you Use we, you are including yourself in whatever you are declaring

john did not say if they claim they have no sin

he did not say if you claim you have no sin

he said if we claim we have no sin.

he then goes on to say if we do sin, we have an advocate.

so Under every circumstance John is claiming we can and do still sin.

 

[Duskey]

A dog was created to function without the spirit of God and so dogs are normal in the way they function

Most dogs are more loving, forgiving, gracious, dedicated, obedient and loyal than any human being I’ve ever met. IOWs most dogs are more Christ-like than any human being I’ve ever met.

 

[garee]

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you

Matthew tells us Jesus shall save his people from their sins. The problem I have had with this begins in Romans where it states we don't have sin anymore and yet everyone seems to agree that we all fall short. Today I woke with an idea of starting at the beginning which is where any good building starts when we need to have a solid foundation. So let's consider Adam and Eve who were created to have the spirit of God. A dog was created to function without the spirit of God and so dogs are normal in the way they function. But humans are missing something and therefore not complete if we do not function with the spirit of God. It would be considered broken if it were a car that was missing a part because it would be incomplete since it would be missing a necessary part. It had to be the spirit that Adam and Eve gave up that caused them to be broken, to have missed the mark, and to deliberately do such a thing was considered sin. Well, we know it was not an apple.

If I'm correct on how I'm looking at this then it makes sense that blasphemy against God would be an unforgivable sin because to do so would be to keep ourselves broken and therefore unable to have the spirit of life. Matthew states Jesus had the ability to forgive sins. In John we see "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." We will continue to stay broken if we refuse the spirit and this is why Jesus told them they will die in their sins because they cannot go where he is going to go. The Lord said "If you were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." In other words, if we did not know we were broken. Then we did not know we were missing a part and so it's not our fault. But if we say yeah, we know we are not broken. Then there lies the acknowledged sin.

This reminds me of 1 John where it is written if we acknowledge or confess our sin is one thing. But we lie if we say we don't have any sin. It seems to be the same concept in both John and 1 John. I'm just looking at the way sin is used in the gospels and in doing so it seems clear that Jesus had the ability to forgive sin. We still have sin if we don't get this forgiveness from him and that's what is being said in Matthew and John. And if we don't know we have sin because we are challenged to the degree of being impaired, disabled or blind to it in some way is how we would be exempt from it. Understand?

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." Romans begins with Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In Colossians we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

The last verse I'm going to mention has "in him" again. From 1 John we read "that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." We cannot sin in him because there's no sin in him and this is why "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Its not that we do not sin (impossible ) . That would make Christ the liar. But all of our sins have been atoned for. Christ does not give a remnant of grace. But does freely give the kind of grace that gives us confidence to the end.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[biker]

The Scriptures do not say what you say. Here's a few more. Are they all wrong?

How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

OK, let's say I agree with you.

Just tell me this.

Since being Saved, have you cursed, cussed, judged, gossiped, lied, stole, or had sexual fornications?

 

[Chester]

Just because you do not understand what I'm saying does not make me wrong. The Scriptures say...

How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

And I did not write the book.

LOL! Of course you did not write the book: and the book means exactly what it says and not what you or I think it says!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK, let's say I agree with you.

Just tell me this.

Since being Saved, have you cursed, cussed, judged, gossiped, lied, stole, or had sexual fornications?

even if he never did any of these things,, He would still be called a sinner.

We need to try to stay away from using a few overt sins to prove one sins..

 

[Peterlag]

OK, let's say I agree with you.

Just tell me this.

Since being Saved, have you cursed, cussed, judged, gossiped, lied, stole, or had sexual fornications?

No I don't do the things that are considered sin when I'm in Christ. And in Christ has nothing to do with being saved. Being saved is Christ in you. I'm talking about us in him.

 

[Peterlag]

Its not that we do not sin (impossible ) . That would make Christ the liar. But all of our sins have been atoned for. Christ does not give a remnant of grace. But does freely give the kind of grace that gives us confidence to the end.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

And you just might be 100 percent correct. Either way I don't see sin in the Christian who is in Christ. I'm not talking about Christ in you. I'm talking about us in him.

 

[Peterlag]

Most dogs are more loving, forgiving, gracious, dedicated, obedient and loyal than any human being I’ve ever met. IOWs most dogs are more Christ-like than any human being I’ve ever met.

Dogs seem to be in the flesh only without the spirit of God. They or any other great loving human has nothing to do with the topic of this conversation which is how to walk in Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

if you Use we, you are including yourself in whatever you are declaring

john did not say if they claim they have no sin

he did not say if you claim you have no sin

he said if we claim we have no sin.

he then goes on to say if we do sin, we have an advocate.

so Under every circumstance John is claiming we can and do still sin.

You are not understanding what I wrote. We (you and me and John) can be not in him. I'm not talking about Christ in you but you in him. There are two items there the way I see 1 John.

1.) either not saved which is Christ in you
2.) have not put on the new man which is you in him.

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

 

[biker]

No I don't do the things that are considered sin when I'm in Christ. And in Christ has nothing to do with being saved. Being saved is Christ in you. I'm talking about us in him.

I understand what you're saying. But for the sake of disagreement here, do you think you are perfect?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are not understanding what I wrote. We (you and me and John) can be not in him. I'm not talking about Christ in you but you in him. There are two items there the way I see 1 John.

1.) either not saved which is Christ in you
2.) have not put on the new man which is you in him.

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

it does not matter

IF WE CLAIM WE HAVE NO SIN (whether we are in him or not) we DECIEVE OURSELVES

If you knew God and how holy he is, you would not even begin to compair yourself to his righteousness.

 

[Peterlag]

it does not matter

IF WE CLAIM WE HAVE NO SIN (whether we are in him or not) we DECIEVE OURSELVES

If you knew God and how holy he is, you would not even begin to compair yourself to his righteousness.

Then we should tare those scriptures from the bible that say we have no sin in him. It's the "in him" that must be outside of your understanding because you keep bringing it back to my flesh. It's not about in me. It's in him.

From 1 John we read "that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." We cannot sin in him because there's no sin in him and this is why "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."