Complimentarianism vs Egalitarianism - Role of Women in the Church?
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Read the rest of what you quoted from his post:
"....Scripture calls them "apostles", but not in the sense of a specific office"
There is a distinction between the role and an office. Same with Teachers. We are all supposed to "teach one another with psalms hymns and spiritual songs" (Colossians 3:16), yet....."not many of you should be teachers" (James 3:1). "If any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires." (1 Tim 3:1).
Offices comes with authority and a greater responsibility. They function to lead the Church in a godly order.
“Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.” (Hebrews 13:17)
The Holy Spirit develops these people into leaders (Acts 20:28).
"....Scripture calls them "apostles", but not in the sense of a specific office"
There is a distinction between the role and an office. Same with Teachers. We are all supposed to "teach one another with psalms hymns and spiritual songs" (Colossians 3:16), yet....."not many of you should be teachers" (James 3:1). "If any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires." (1 Tim 3:1).
Offices comes with authority and a greater responsibility. They function to lead the Church in a godly order.
“Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.” (Hebrews 13:17)
The Holy Spirit develops these people into leaders (Acts 20:28).
You were wise. In plain English what should have been said is this: "Has God given spiritual leadership to men or to women?" And Scripture is quite clear. It is Christian men who are given spiritual leadership, both in the home and in the church. Which means that women must not preach, teach, or assume spiritual authority within Christian churches.
Interestingly enough, both the Catholic and Orthodox churches have held to this view since their inception (in spite of any other errors).
CATHOLIC CHURCH
"Therefore, to understand the Church’s position for reserving the Sacrament of Holy Orders and thereby the ordination of deacons, priests, and bishops to men only (cf. Code of Canon Law, #1024), we must leave politics and turn to our theological foundation."
ORTHODOX CHURCH
The clergy of the Orthodox Church are the bishops, priests, and deacons, the same offices identified in the New Testament and found in the early church. Priests (also called presbyters or elders) include archpriests, protopresbyters, hieromonks (priest-monks) and archimandrites (senior hieromonks)... All Orthodox clergy must be male. There are records of deaconesses in the New Testament and in the early church; the consensus today is that this office was never equivalent to that of deacon, but had separate responsibilities.
Interestingly enough, both the Catholic and Orthodox churches have held to this view since their inception (in spite of any other errors).
CATHOLIC CHURCH
"Therefore, to understand the Church’s position for reserving the Sacrament of Holy Orders and thereby the ordination of deacons, priests, and bishops to men only (cf. Code of Canon Law, #1024), we must leave politics and turn to our theological foundation."
ORTHODOX CHURCH
The clergy of the Orthodox Church are the bishops, priests, and deacons, the same offices identified in the New Testament and found in the early church. Priests (also called presbyters or elders) include archpriests, protopresbyters, hieromonks (priest-monks) and archimandrites (senior hieromonks)... All Orthodox clergy must be male. There are records of deaconesses in the New Testament and in the early church; the consensus today is that this office was never equivalent to that of deacon, but had separate responsibilities.
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
In the Lord a man and woman are equal for the only thing that separates a man and a woman is the flesh, but the spirit and soul is the same, and they put off the flesh and have a glorified body which is the same, which is why Jesus said they do not marry and are like unto the angels in heaven, for angels do not have a gender.
The men and women can do the same, and have the same knowledge, for God gives everyone the same knowledge, and does not give one person knowledge above another.
Which is why the Bible says we need not that any man teach us but the Spirit will teach us, guide us in to all truth, and show us things to come, and study to show yourselves approved unto God, and in the last days God shall pour out His Spirit upon all flesh and men and women shall prophesy.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
The authority structure of the Church on earth which angels are last in that authority structure for the angels are ministering spirits to the saints, and the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints, and the saints in a glorified body are greater than the angels.
When the saints come together to worship God, and hear the word of God it should be a man to take the lead.
But everybody in the Church are equal to each other, and the women equal to the preacher.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
This says let the women learn in silence which is when the preacher speaks that they should be quiet, which they might of had a problem in that Church with women talking to their husbands while the preacher was speaking, but the men are also to be quiet when the preacher speaks.
But the women can sing, give testimonies, and add to the Church service the same as the men for they are equal in the Lord.
It says the women should not usurp authority over the men, but they can view themselves as equal to the men, the preacher.
And the men are not authority over the women only the man in charge of the Church service.
When he is speaking then he has the floor so if the women talk to their husband they are disrupting the service, and the men might disrupt the service talking back to her, and the men are also to be quiet.
Although Amen from the men or women listening should be alright.
It does not say women cannot speak in Church only when they are learning and that is when the preacher is speaking so do not interrupt him.
And since the man is in charge he can have a women come up and speak for he gave her permission and he is done speaking for the time.
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
When the preacher is done having the floor then the saints can contribute to the service both men and women for they are equal for all the saints contributing to the service is better than one person contributing to the service.
A woman can teach, preach, and do all that a man can do, and even teach men, but it should be a man in charge of the Church service according to the authority structure of God on earth so things run smooth without fighting who is in charge, which there is enough of that in marriage as they battle for control.
Since the men and women are equal in the Lord, and both have the Spirit, which the kingdom of God is within them, and are just as loving, then they could teach just as good over any age group, and group of people, and Jesus even interacted with children and taught them.
But we all need something to do, and it seems right for a women to teach the young children, and the men to teach the teenagers in youth group, but it would not matter if they are equal in the Lord.
But the women can teach whoever in the Church as long as it is not a service where the preacher is in charge, and can do what the men do in the Church.
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
In the Lord a man and woman are equal for the only thing that separates a man and a woman is the flesh, but the spirit and soul is the same, and they put off the flesh and have a glorified body which is the same, which is why Jesus said they do not marry and are like unto the angels in heaven, for angels do not have a gender.
The men and women can do the same, and have the same knowledge, for God gives everyone the same knowledge, and does not give one person knowledge above another.
Which is why the Bible says we need not that any man teach us but the Spirit will teach us, guide us in to all truth, and show us things to come, and study to show yourselves approved unto God, and in the last days God shall pour out His Spirit upon all flesh and men and women shall prophesy.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
The authority structure of the Church on earth which angels are last in that authority structure for the angels are ministering spirits to the saints, and the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints, and the saints in a glorified body are greater than the angels.
When the saints come together to worship God, and hear the word of God it should be a man to take the lead.
But everybody in the Church are equal to each other, and the women equal to the preacher.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
This says let the women learn in silence which is when the preacher speaks that they should be quiet, which they might of had a problem in that Church with women talking to their husbands while the preacher was speaking, but the men are also to be quiet when the preacher speaks.
But the women can sing, give testimonies, and add to the Church service the same as the men for they are equal in the Lord.
It says the women should not usurp authority over the men, but they can view themselves as equal to the men, the preacher.
And the men are not authority over the women only the man in charge of the Church service.
When he is speaking then he has the floor so if the women talk to their husband they are disrupting the service, and the men might disrupt the service talking back to her, and the men are also to be quiet.
Although Amen from the men or women listening should be alright.
It does not say women cannot speak in Church only when they are learning and that is when the preacher is speaking so do not interrupt him.
And since the man is in charge he can have a women come up and speak for he gave her permission and he is done speaking for the time.
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
When the preacher is done having the floor then the saints can contribute to the service both men and women for they are equal for all the saints contributing to the service is better than one person contributing to the service.
A woman can teach, preach, and do all that a man can do, and even teach men, but it should be a man in charge of the Church service according to the authority structure of God on earth so things run smooth without fighting who is in charge, which there is enough of that in marriage as they battle for control.
Since the men and women are equal in the Lord, and both have the Spirit, which the kingdom of God is within them, and are just as loving, then they could teach just as good over any age group, and group of people, and Jesus even interacted with children and taught them.
But we all need something to do, and it seems right for a women to teach the young children, and the men to teach the teenagers in youth group, but it would not matter if they are equal in the Lord.
But the women can teach whoever in the Church as long as it is not a service where the preacher is in charge, and can do what the men do in the Church.
Who are you to call anyone an idiot? This isn't elementary school and we are not children name calling is uncalled for and childish, We are Christians and as Christians we are called to be Christlike to be love and to show his heart and his light you took that oath when you accepted him into your heart when you said you accepted him as your Lord.
If you cannot debate in a mature calm and Christlike manner then maybe you shouldn't be debating or at the very least learn more patience and love before you get into heated debates like this. Personally I believe he will call who he calls and use who he uses, regardless of the man or women.
And yes there are scriptures to say otherwise but there are also many examples in which he used women in place of men
If you cannot debate in a mature calm and Christlike manner then maybe you shouldn't be debating or at the very least learn more patience and love before you get into heated debates like this. Personally I believe he will call who he calls and use who he uses, regardless of the man or women.
And yes there are scriptures to say otherwise but there are also many examples in which he used women in place of men
I already said: Jesus sent Mary (two Marys, actually). I wonder why you disagree so strongly 
Matthew 28:10
Matthew 28:10
Are you talking about the Sunday morning that He rose from the grave?
That depends are you a sterotype catholic priest who lures children with candy or a seductive women in the dark ally?
The old man hading out candy trick doesn't seem to work so well anymore but many men and young men still fall for the seductive lust and lets face it lust is stronger than the desire for candy
The old man hading out candy trick doesn't seem to work so well anymore but many men and young men still fall for the seductive lust and lets face it lust is stronger than the desire for candy
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