Are there two gospels or ONE?

Absolutely · Jan 22, 2019

What you are hitting all over the target is mis understanding of salvation.

The dbr,resurrection of the dead,the blood,the virgin birth are ESSENTIALS of the faith,not a quiz prior to salvation.

It's what we believe as believers.

You just flat can not get to Jesus " properly" without the HS.

Every formula is just a rough begining.
Not some ever so correct box for God to climb into.

John146 · Jan 22, 2019

Absolutely said:

When Jesus showed Himself to Paul, Paul realized that Jesus had been resurrected and that the Christians he's been persecuted had been right all this time.

John146 · Jan 22, 2019

Absolutely said:

Show me exactly when did the jailer get saved? Was it before Paul and Silas taught them? Or before?

Wansvic · Jan 22, 2019

Absolutely said:

Each must believe that Jesus was the Messiah and believe that His death, burial, and resurrection opened the way for mankind to be saved. Without this understanding whatever one does is pointless.

Also, scripture states that one must OBEY the gospel.

2 Thess 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

How does one obey the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ? They follow God's commands given to Peter which he presented on the Day of Pentecost: repent, be baptized in Jesus name, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 22, 2019

Absolutely said:

I disagree that they are the "same thing" and that these are "all visible".

When Jesus told MM, "I ascend [active]" (and then did so that day, ON Firstfruit/His Resurrection day), it was not "visible" to anyone. He told her to "SAY UNTO them, 'I ascend...'".

Later, after "40 days" [40 = trial/testing], He then VISIBLY "was taken up [G1869 - epairo (epi and airo); passive]" and "went up" (as they looked on), and "VISIBLY" is how He will also "so come in like manner as ye have SEEN Him GO INTO heaven"

... and I believe this pattern ^ will hold true at the time span involving the future things... (starting with our Rapture [not "visible to all"]... and later concluding with His very visible "return" to the earth [Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN" and Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "RETURN" (and their parallels)])

Absolutely · Jan 22, 2019

John146 said:

You got that quiz b4 salvation formula down pat huh?
Even the bible needs realignment

Absolutely · Jan 22, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

I disagree that they are the "same thing" and that these are "all visible".

When Jesus told MM, "I ascend [active]" (and then did so that day, ON Firstfruit/His Resurrection day), it was not "visible" to anyone. He told her to "SAY UNTO them, 'I ascend...'".

Later, after "40 days" [40 = trial/testing], He then VISIBLY "was taken up [G1869 - epairo (epi and airo); passive]" and "went up" (as they looked on), and "VISIBLY" is how He will also "so come in like manner as ye have SEEN Him GO INTO heaven"

... and I believe this pattern ^ will hold true at the time span involving the future things... (starting with our Rapture [not "visible to all"]... and later concluding with His very visible "return" to the earth [Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN" and Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "RETURN" (and their parallels)])

They are all caught up.
All visible.
It is conjecture to modify what it plainly is

Absolutely · Jan 22, 2019

No

Wansvic said:

No,the jailer,paul,the thief on the cross,and many modern testimonies of saved on fire for Jesus converts testify against that mould.

Salvation is not your template. It is Jesus ,the Person,coming in.
Dbr knowledge can and many times does come AFTERWARD.

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 22, 2019

Absolutely said:

I've examined it... and I do not see where I've modified anything whatsoever. His ascension ON FIRSTFRUIT [His Resurrection Day and fulfilling Leviticus 23:10-12 on that very day] was "active"... His later [after "40 days"] "went up" was "passive" and VISIBLE to His Jewish disciples, to whom the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom... was promised (and they inquired of Him in Acts 1 of its TIMING... and which will commence upon His "return" there).

The first one (ON FIRSTFRUIT, His Resurrection Day) He only told MM to "SAY UNTO them..." (which she did so, and He later "upbraided them [the eleven]" because of their hardness of heart, because they BELIEVED NOT them which HAD SEEN Him AFTER His resurrection). And this pattern also holds true in the CONTRAST we see (re: FUTURE things) between 2Th1:10b and 2Th2:10-12 ("IN THAT DAY" the FUTURE TIME PERIOD following our Rapture)

Absolutely · Jan 22, 2019

John146 said:

I honestly am not needing it to be one or the other,because the outcome is the same.
What about you?
Is he less saved if he left something out?
What if he messed up and said it oit of perfect sync?
.... Or left our d or b or r?
Under your deal he goes to hell.

Amazing the grace by paul teachers have ended up neing the ultimate legalists that have people in hell for mispeak.

Absolutely · Jan 22, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

A mocroscope can help sometimes.
Other times it can take one down a rabbit trail.

Absolutely · Jan 22, 2019

FF to 16:30 for the start of the sermon.

Note the salvation part.
Note WHO saves.

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 22, 2019

^ EDIT (to my post): "...in the CONTRAST we see (re: FUTURE things) between these two [contrasted] 2Th1:10b and 2Th2:10-12 (both "IN THAT DAY"... that is, IN/DURING the FUTURE TIME PERIOD following our Rapture--ppl will believe one or the other of these two things ['the TESTIMONY OF US TO YOU' or "the LIE/the false/pseudei"], during that future time period [meaning, in the trib years])".

Additionally, the Matthew 13:30,39,40,49-50 thing happens in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE as that of our Rapture [1&2Th]

John146 · Jan 22, 2019

Absolutely said:

If one does not believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, that is the death, burial and resurrection for sins, then that person is not saved. It is only through believing in the shed blood of Jesus is one saved.

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 22, 2019

Wansvic said:

Galatians 3:1 -

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey [G3982, passive *] the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?"

* [quoting from Bible Hub] "3982 peíthō (the root of 4102 /pístis, "faith") – to persuade ; (passive) be persuaded of what is trustworthy."

[bold and underline mine]

Wansvic · Jan 22, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

The scripture you post speaks of Galatians not obeying the truth. The Galatians were beginning to revert back to the Law.
The New Testament salvation plan of repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Ghost has nothing to do with the Old Testament law.
We are told to be obedient to God and obey the gospel established in the New Testament.

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 22, 2019

^ If you are referring to passages such as Romans 10:16; 2 Thessalonians 1:8; and 1 Peter 4:17, which use the phrase "obey the gospel" [or "obey not the gospel" in the case of 1Pet and Rom10]... note that that word for "obey" is different than the one I mentioned in my post, above.

Here, it is "G5219" [to heed, to listen attentively] in Rom10:16 and 2Th1:8... and "G544" [to disbelieve, to refuse to be persuaded (by the Lord); with the root being also G3982 - peitho - persuade (as in my previous post)] in 1Pet4:17

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 22, 2019

Acts 17:1-4 [esv, for example] -

1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded [G3982 - epeisthēsan ] and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women. 5 But the Jews were jealous, and... […]

[again, quoting from Bible Hub] "3982 peíthō (the root of 4102 / pístis, "faith") – to persuade ; (passive) be persuaded of what is trustworthy."

[bold mine]

Absolutely · Jan 22, 2019

John146 said:

The devil and many unsaved believe it.

None if which are saved.

Its in James.
( one of the books you don't take seriously)

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 22, 2019

And to quote the full verse I had referred to in my previous posts (to Abs),

Mark 16:14 [bsb] -

"Later as they were eating, Jesus appeared to the eleven and rebuked them for their unbelief [G570 - apistian *] and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen."

* [quoting from Bible Hub] "2. want of faith, unbelief: shown in withholding belief in the divine power, Mark 16:14 […]"

Are there two gospels or ONE?

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